Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2020, 04:53 PM

And, JP, that is only your personal assessment of Payton's personnel moves. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that no single NFL Coach "has done more to limit the success of his teams on the field than with irrational personnel moves and draft reaches". You are talking around a 100 head coaches in the league over Payton's tenure with the Saints and you claim he's been the worst dealing with personnel, yet he has one of the two or three best records over that same period. That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think?

I know how involved you are with tracking and predicting personnel with the Saints. The fact that personnel moves haven't mirrored your desires may be a factor in your somewhat irrational criticism of Payton.

Well, my friend?

AsylumGuido · 08-25-2020, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

With stay puff at LG we could do better

What's this "we"? Since when have you become a Saints fan?

RailBoss · 08-25-2020, 11:10 PM

It's hard to be a "Closer" team when the team is in New Orleans. RG and the Zebras have a way to decide who's going through.
Lest we forget.

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Rugby Saint II · 08-30-2020, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

AG,

We are the first team in NFL history to go 13-3 in back to back seasons and NOT advance past the conference championship game.

All of these regular season wins has yet to translate into anything meaningful. Saints consistently draft well, pick up key Free Agents yet fail in the playoffs. At some point, you gotta look at coaching.

The offense ain't the problem. I'm looking squarely at Dennis Allen. His defense lost us games critical games because he just doesn't know how to close.

AsylumGuido · 08-30-2020, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

The offense ain't the problem. I'm looking squarely at Dennis Allen. His defense lost us games critical games because he just doesn't know how to close.

Last I checked he wasn't in uniform out on the field. Or did I miss something?

jeanpierre · 08-30-2020, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

And, JP, that is only your personal assessment of Payton's personnel moves. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that no single NFL Coach "has done more to limit the success of his teams on the field than with irrational personnel moves and draft reaches". You are talking around a 100 head coaches in the league over Payton's tenure with the Saints and you claim he's been the worst dealing with personnel, yet he has one of the two or three best records over that same period. That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think?

I know how involved you are with tracking and predicting personnel with the Saints. The fact that personnel moves haven't mirrored your desires may be a factor in your somewhat irrational criticism of Payton.

Well, my friend?

They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias...

Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay...

If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself...

And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this...

So quit with trying to personalize it AG, as I've not gone and poked at your fall on your knees and fluff the band groupie attitude toward the Payton and the team...

A team front office that gets a pass from a local media out of fear of retribution from Greg Bensel, who's also gotten a pass for his part in a Church coverup of molested children...

And a team that gets a pass from national media because of the size of this market...

No, the wool was pulled when reviewing the accumulative performance of Payton as the defacto GM; you look at the results despite having Brees and Payton has failed to make enough of the right moves...

One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark...

And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows...

AsylumGuido · 08-30-2020, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias...

Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay...

If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself...

And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this...

So quit with trying to personalize it AG, as I've not gone and poked at your fall on your knees and fluff the band groupie attitude toward the Payton and the team...

A team front office that gets a pass from a local media out of fear of retribution from Greg Bensel, who's also gotten a pass for his part in a Church coverup of molested children...

And a team that gets a pass from national media because of the size of this market...

No, the wool was pulled when reviewing the accumulative performance of Payton as the defacto GM; you look at the results despite having Brees and Payton has failed to make enough of the right moves...

One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark...

And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows...

I understand what you are saying and your opinion, JP. It is exactly what I was expecting as a reply. Now, do you honestly feel we'd be better off 1.) without Payton, and 2.) who is out there that you are confident could do a better job that we can have as a replacement, and 3.) do you honestly think Gayle will ever replace Payton?

That's what I've been wanting to hear from you. You can complain all you want, but if there is no better option what is the purpose? This is a question I have asked you and others at least a couple of dozen times and have never received an answer. Even telling me that you have no answer would be an acceptable answer.

Oh, and by the way, all 100 head coaches besides Belechick have "failed to make enough of the right moves..." during Payton's tenure with the Saints. At least Payton has one Lombardi and I feel we'll get another this year.

By the way, JP, your hindsight is better than 20/20. I'd venture to say it is 20/10 or better.

AsylumGuido · 08-30-2020, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias...

Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay...

If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself...

And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this...

...............................

One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark...

And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows...

I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions.

I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support.

jeanpierre · 08-30-2020, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions.

I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support.

Start with expanding past Pat Kirwan and NewOrleansSaints.com...

jeanpierre · 08-30-2020, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions.

I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support.

Well, you can start with following Draft Network, PFF, WalterFootball, OurLads, NFLDraftScout, Steve Shoup, Rob Rang, Chad Reuter, Gil Brandt, Lance Zierlein, Charlie Campbell, Our Lads, Dan Shonka...

Read and evaluate their scouting reports looking for consensus on grades, player traits, strengths, weaknesses...

Plus, I watch about 70 college games a year, when Hagan was alive and we were pushing each other and we'd compare notes, we put nearly 200 games away between us per year...

My close friends are p*ssed and frustrated that I don't close the deal and get monetized considering the time I put into my passion and hobby...

But this past year and half, I've probably curtailed it to about 80% of what I put into it...

Plus, have a circle of friends and acquaintances in about the Saints Community and Media; so, yeah, I know I know more than the average fan about what's player evaluations and going on...

And so as not to compromise my friends I do not blab and share things I know as it could cause them problems...

Also I've about twenty or so friends and fraternal brothers who are HS, College, and NFL coaches, and they usually point me in the right direction when I've a question and I want to understand what's going on...

And if you'd bother to go into my posting extensive posting history, you can start to see where I soured on Payton as I came to realize the real Saint of this franchise was Brees and not as a system quarterback...

And those criticisms are fair, justified, and would probably be shared by more media types (who share them with me), but have to feed families, pay bills on their ability to gain access, report on the team...

And that's why you no longer see any Ron Swobodas challenging the Saints Head Coach, openly criticizing him...

08-25-2020, 04:53 PM	#51
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments And, JP, that is only your personal assessment of Payton's personnel moves. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that no single NFL Coach "has done more to limit the success of his teams on the field than with irrational personnel moves and draft reaches". You are talking around a 100 head coaches in the league over Payton's tenure with the Saints and you claim he's been the worst dealing with personnel, yet he has one of the two or three best records over that same period. That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think? I know how involved you are with tracking and predicting personnel with the Saints. The fact that personnel moves haven't mirrored your desires may be a factor in your somewhat irrational criticism of Payton. Well, my friend?
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-25-2020, 04:54 PM	#52
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by spkb25 With stay puff at LG we could do better What's this "we"? Since when have you become a Saints fan?

08-30-2020, 02:46 PM	#54
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by K Major AG, We are the first team in NFL history to go 13-3 in back to back seasons and NOT advance past the conference championship game. All of these regular season wins has yet to translate into anything meaningful. Saints consistently draft well, pick up key Free Agents yet fail in the playoffs. At some point, you gotta look at coaching. The offense ain't the problem. I'm looking squarely at Dennis Allen. His defense lost us games critical games because he just doesn't know how to close.

08-30-2020, 03:24 PM	#55
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II The offense ain't the problem. I'm looking squarely at Dennis Allen. His defense lost us games critical games because he just doesn't know how to close. Last I checked he wasn't in uniform out on the field. Or did I miss something?

08-30-2020, 04:14 PM	#56
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by AsylumGuido And, JP, that is only your personal assessment of Payton's personnel moves. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that no single NFL Coach "has done more to limit the success of his teams on the field than with irrational personnel moves and draft reaches". You are talking around a 100 head coaches in the league over Payton's tenure with the Saints and you claim he's been the worst dealing with personnel, yet he has one of the two or three best records over that same period. That's a bit of hyperbole, don't you think? I know how involved you are with tracking and predicting personnel with the Saints. The fact that personnel moves haven't mirrored your desires may be a factor in your somewhat irrational criticism of Payton. Well, my friend? They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias... Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay... If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself... And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this... So quit with trying to personalize it AG, as I've not gone and poked at your fall on your knees and fluff the band groupie attitude toward the Payton and the team... A team front office that gets a pass from a local media out of fear of retribution from Greg Bensel, who's also gotten a pass for his part in a Church coverup of molested children... And a team that gets a pass from national media because of the size of this market... No, the wool was pulled when reviewing the accumulative performance of Payton as the defacto GM; you look at the results despite having Brees and Payton has failed to make enough of the right moves... One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark... And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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08-30-2020, 05:57 PM	#57
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by jeanpierre They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias... Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay... If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself... And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this... So quit with trying to personalize it AG, as I've not gone and poked at your fall on your knees and fluff the band groupie attitude toward the Payton and the team... A team front office that gets a pass from a local media out of fear of retribution from Greg Bensel, who's also gotten a pass for his part in a Church coverup of molested children... And a team that gets a pass from national media because of the size of this market... No, the wool was pulled when reviewing the accumulative performance of Payton as the defacto GM; you look at the results despite having Brees and Payton has failed to make enough of the right moves... One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark... And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows... I understand what you are saying and your opinion, JP. It is exactly what I was expecting as a reply. Now, do you honestly feel we'd be better off 1.) without Payton, and 2.) who is out there that you are confident could do a better job that we can have as a replacement, and 3.) do you honestly think Gayle will ever replace Payton? That's what I've been wanting to hear from you. You can complain all you want, but if there is no better option what is the purpose? This is a question I have asked you and others at least a couple of dozen times and have never received an answer. Even telling me that you have no answer would be an acceptable answer. Oh, and by the way, all 100 head coaches besides Belechick have "failed to make enough of the right moves..." during Payton's tenure with the Saints. At least Payton has one Lombardi and I feel we'll get another this year. By the way, JP, your hindsight is better than 20/20. I'd venture to say it is 20/10 or better.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-30-2020, 07:01 PM	#58
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by jeanpierre They're not irrational, they're grounded in facts - facts that you choose to ignore or ignorant of because of your overwhelming fandom bias... Fact is Payton over reaches in the draft has a reputation as a whale in trades with other NFL teams know, take advantage because he's got to spend more to acquire the talent here because they know he'll overpay... If not for Ireland's scouting efforts and the fortunate luck of UDFAs falling and bailing out Payton's poor draft decisions, we'd still be 8-8 land; the record is there for itself... And it's not just my assessment, it's the assessment of many respected draft folks who've worked in NFL offices; if you'd get your information from more than Saints and NFL press releases, you know this... ............................... One advantage I've got as an admitted armchair GM is the 100% clarity of hindsight and assessing his moves that've failed to miss the mark... And unlike some here, I do admit when I'm wrong, as the record shows... I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions. I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-30-2020, 10:43 PM	#59
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions. I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support. Start with expanding past Pat Kirwan and NewOrleansSaints.com... K Major likes this.

08-30-2020, 11:11 PM	#60
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Malcolm Jenkins thinks Saints are 'closer' after Brees' comments Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm curious as to what sources you have that I don't. I get very little from Saints and NFL press releases. I try to follow every source you share. I search for any and every article, tweet or facebook post daily for information. I have seen isolated criticism of draft moves and such, but on the whole virtually every source seems overall positive about Payton's contributions. I would seriously like to see those experts that align totally with your degree of displeasure of Payton across the board. I will gladly defer to you with that documented support. Well, you can start with following Draft Network, PFF, WalterFootball, OurLads, NFLDraftScout, Steve Shoup, Rob Rang, Chad Reuter, Gil Brandt, Lance Zierlein, Charlie Campbell, Our Lads, Dan Shonka... Read and evaluate their scouting reports looking for consensus on grades, player traits, strengths, weaknesses... Plus, I watch about 70 college games a year, when Hagan was alive and we were pushing each other and we'd compare notes, we put nearly 200 games away between us per year... My close friends are pssed and frustrated that I don't close the deal and get monetized* considering the time I put into my passion and hobby... But this past year and half, I've probably curtailed it to about 80% of what I put into it... Plus, have a circle of friends and acquaintances in about the Saints Community and Media; so, yeah, I know I know more than the average fan about what's player evaluations and going on... And so as not to compromise my friends I do not blab and share things I know as it could cause them problems... Also I've about twenty or so friends and fraternal brothers who are HS, College, and NFL coaches, and they usually point me in the right direction when I've a question and I want to understand what's going on... And if you'd bother to go into my posting extensive posting history, you can start to see where I soured on Payton as I came to realize the real Saint of this franchise was Brees and not as a system quarterback... And those criticisms are fair, justified, and would probably be shared by more media types (who share them with me), but have to feed families, pay bills on their ability to gain access, report on the team... And that's why you no longer see any Ron Swobodas challenging the Saints Head Coach, openly criticizing him...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...