Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew

gosaints1 · 09-23-2020, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

Manning did but his D was way better. They tried everything in the book on Waller; not much worked. They played well then stunk then got better. A good butt kicking. Green Bay will be a strong indicator if they have it a fourth year in a row or not.

GB will be a big game to see if the Saints can challenge at championship level. This team, imho, still is the team to beat in the NFC South. Atlanta? No, they create ways to lose games, in ways nobody has ever done before. Carolina? Disaster, even greater disaster without CM for five or six weeks. And I just haven’t bought into the TB/TB “crowning” yet.

Waller wanted to “win” early on, and that mindset was infectious to all other players. It’s no different when Thomas is on the field..., he refuses to fail. Every. Single. Play. imho, that mentality was missing last game, along with the player who espouses it. Leadership comes in many forms, not just from the “older” vets.

saintsfan1976 · 09-23-2020, 12:31 PM

Week 2 does not a season make.

gosaints1 · 09-23-2020, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Week 2 does not a season make.

One of the most true statements I’ve read around here.

rezburna · 09-23-2020, 02:30 PM

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

rezburna · 09-23-2020, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him.

I can agree. I'm also thinking Hill will get his shot. In the previos post you mentioned 4 teams, all with very good to great ground games with mobile qb's. Unless Brees can run( which eveyone knows he can't) it has an affect on players like Kamara doing what he does. Enter a good ( doesn't have to be great) mobile qb. I think it opens up the O quite a bit. Ole crablegs can do it to. It will be a very sad day if they sit Brees but if it's necessary so be it. What do you think the O looks like with someone with wheels under center?

rezburna · 09-23-2020, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I can agree. I'm also thinking Hill will get his shot. In the previos post you mentioned 4 teams, all with very good to great ground games with mobile qb's. Unless Brees can run( which eveyone knows he can't) it has an affect on players like Kamara doing what he does. Enter a good ( doesn't have to be great) mobile qb. I think it opens up the O quite a bit. Ole crablegs can do it to. It will be a very sad day if they sit Brees but if it's necessary so be it. What do you think the O looks like with someone with wheels under center?

Modern. RPO’s. **** teams haven’t see a lot of on film from the Saints. Possibly more interceptions than we’ve been accustomed to; but we need to find out.

gosaints1 · 09-23-2020, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

All true, and agree. But it can be done, as you stated, if the team is built for dinking and dunking. First thing’s first though. The team has to acknowledge the following: “DB#9’s arm isn’t going to get us there anymore”. I don’t think that has been accepted, internally, yet, heck, I don’t think the idea is even allowed.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 02:32 PM

M. Jenkins is living up to his clown stature. Ole big mouth can't back up the talk, I'm not surprised in the least. Terrible, terrible signing.

09-23-2020, 11:09 AM	#1
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo Manning did but his D was way better. They tried everything in the book on Waller; not much worked. They played well then stunk then got better. A good butt kicking. Green Bay will be a strong indicator if they have it a fourth year in a row or not. GB will be a big game to see if the Saints can challenge at championship level. This team, imho, still is the team to beat in the NFC South. Atlanta? No, they create ways to lose games, in ways nobody has ever done before. Carolina? Disaster, even greater disaster without CM for five or six weeks. And I just haven’t bought into the TB/TB “crowning” yet. Waller wanted to “win” early on, and that mindset was infectious to all other players. It’s no different when Thomas is on the field..., he refuses to fail. Every. Single. Play. imho, that mentality was missing last game, along with the player who espouses it. Leadership comes in many forms, not just from the “older” vets.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-23-2020, 12:31 PM	#2
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,046 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Week 2 does not a season make. gosaints1 likes this.

09-23-2020, 12:35 PM	#3
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Week 2 does not a season make. One of the most true statements I’ve read around here.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-23-2020, 02:30 PM	#4
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. Rsanders24, dizzle88, The Dude and 1 others like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-23-2020, 02:50 PM	#5
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by rezburna Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

09-23-2020, 06:40 PM	#6
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by halloween 65 We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either. The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him. gosaints1 likes this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-23-2020, 09:33 PM	#7
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by rezburna The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him. I can agree. I'm also thinking Hill will get his shot. In the previos post you mentioned 4 teams, all with very good to great ground games with mobile qb's. Unless Brees can run( which eveyone knows he can't) it has an affect on players like Kamara doing what he does. Enter a good ( doesn't have to be great) mobile qb. I think it opens up the O quite a bit. Ole crablegs can do it to. It will be a very sad day if they sit Brees but if it's necessary so be it. What do you think the O looks like with someone with wheels under center?

09-23-2020, 10:37 PM	#8
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by halloween 65 I can agree. I'm also thinking Hill will get his shot. In the previos post you mentioned 4 teams, all with very good to great ground games with mobile qb's. Unless Brees can run( which eveyone knows he can't) it has an affect on players like Kamara doing what he does. Enter a good ( doesn't have to be great) mobile qb. I think it opens up the O quite a bit. Ole crablegs can do it to. It will be a very sad day if they sit Brees but if it's necessary so be it. What do you think the O looks like with someone with wheels under center? Modern. RPO’s. **** teams haven’t see a lot of on film from the Saints. Possibly more interceptions than we’ve been accustomed to; but we need to find out.

09-23-2020, 03:31 PM	#9
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by rezburna Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. All true, and agree. But it can be done, as you stated, if the team is built for dinking and dunking. First thing’s first though. The team has to acknowledge the following: “DB#9’s arm isn’t going to get us there anymore”. I don’t think that has been accepted, internally, yet, heck, I don’t think the idea is even allowed.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-23-2020, 02:32 PM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew M. Jenkins is living up to his clown stature. Ole big mouth can't back up the talk, I'm not surprised in the least. Terrible, terrible signing. jnormand and dizzle88 like this.