Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew

rezburna · 09-23-2020, 02:30 PM

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 02:32 PM

M. Jenkins is living up to his clown stature. Ole big mouth can't back up the talk, I'm not surprised in the least. Terrible, terrible signing.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 02:37 PM

Honestly Brees looked bad. Worst than I ever seen him look. I feel for the guy.

halloween 65 · 09-23-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

gosaints1 · 09-23-2020, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense.

Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade.

We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team.

Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long.

All true, and agree. But it can be done, as you stated, if the team is built for dinking and dunking. First thing’s first though. The team has to acknowledge the following: “DB#9’s arm isn’t going to get us there anymore”. I don’t think that has been accepted, internally, yet, heck, I don’t think the idea is even allowed.

AsylumGuido · 09-23-2020, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

As mentioned above I feel the same way about Sanders. Doesn’t help that Sanders had drops. Drew won’t have any confidence in him and I can see Sanders resenting him.
On a positive note Smith looked good.
I think we will shake this off. After week 4 we will know what this team really is.

Drops? Sanders didn't have any dropped passes. Montgomery and Cook lead the team in drops after two games with one a piece.

Rugby Saint II · 09-23-2020, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Honestly Brees looked bad. Worst than I ever seen him look. I feel for the guy.

He looked sluggish and not crisp n the least. He worked all off season doing some shot putting or throwing some sort of heavy ball to increase his strength, which was his focus this year. Maybe it cost him his accuracy which is his strength. Can he get it back? My gut tells me yes...possibly for even a couple of more years.

I truly believe that when the Saints O-line finds their timing, gels and gets in sync then we'll be back to a top tier unit enforcing our will on other teams. Sanders has to get comfortable in Payton's complex play book with an abbreviated intro to the offense. I believe that he'll get in tune with Drew sooner rather than later. Payton has to start using Murray more. He was obviously in the beginning of the game but as usual he got away from him. Tre' Quan still dropped balls and I believe he ran the wrong route at least once. He had good YAC though and threw a nice block for a big gain. He has to be more consistent...still has to be more consistent. Bottom line in my opinion the receivers couldn't get separation and were owned all night.

The defense started Strong but then fell apart. DA never adjusted to their evolving game plan. We might have been out coached now that I think about it. There were far too many missed tackles after the initial strong start by the defense who put up a weak front four.

AsylumGuido · 09-23-2020, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

He looked sluggish and not crisp n the least. He worked all off season doing some shot putting or throwing some sort of heavy ball to increase his strength, which was his focus this year. Maybe it cost him his accuracy which is his strength. Can he get it back? My gut tells me yes...possibly for even a couple of more years.

I truly believe that when the Saints O-line finds their timing, gels and gets in sync then we'll be back to a top tier unit enforcing our will on other teams. Sanders has to get comfortable in Payton's complex play book with an abbreviated intro to the offense. I believe that he'll get in tune with Drew sooner rather than later. Payton has to start using Murray more. He was obviously in the beginning of the game but as usual he got away from him. Tre' Quan still dropped balls and I believe he ran the wrong route at least once. He had good YAC though and threw a nice block for a big gain. He has to be more consistent...still has to be more consistent. Bottom line in my opinion the receivers couldn't get separation and were owned all night.

The defense started Strong but then fell apart. DA never adjusted to their evolving game plan. We might have been out coached now that I think about it. There were far too many missed tackles after the initial strong start by the defense who put up a weak front four.

Penalties. The Saints now have 248 yards in penalties after the first two game. The next closest has 198. Sixteen total penalties which is 2nd in the league.

That was the game.

rezburna · 09-23-2020, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him.

gosaints1 · 09-23-2020, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Penalties. The Saints now have 148 yards in penalties after the first two game. The next closest has 198. Sixteen total penalties which is 2nd in the league.

That was the game.

148? lol, I know what you meant, fat-fingered the “2” huh? lol and yes, it was a huge reason the Saints defense remained on the field as long as they did. Five first downs from the penalties was painful to watch. I still believe that Waller imposing his will had a demoralizing affect that the Saints couldn’t bounce back from. There are games within the games. The numbers/stats game, the physical game, the mental game, etc... Waller dominated the field, that hurt. Alot.

09-23-2020, 02:30 PM	#41
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,657	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. Rsanders24, dizzle88, The Dude and 1 others like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-23-2020, 02:32 PM	#42
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew M. Jenkins is living up to his clown stature. Ole big mouth can't back up the talk, I'm not surprised in the least. Terrible, terrible signing. jnormand and dizzle88 like this.

09-23-2020, 02:37 PM	#43
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Honestly Brees looked bad. Worst than I ever seen him look. I feel for the guy. jnormand and dizzle88 like this.

09-23-2020, 02:50 PM	#44
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by rezburna Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either.

09-23-2020, 03:31 PM	#45
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by rezburna Brett Favre’s Vikings were ranked 6th in total defense and and had Adrian Peterson toting the rock on offense. Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the top graded defense of this decade. We’re built NOTHING like those teams. We’re not built for power on offense. We run a zone blocking scheme that relies on agile lineman. Then we keep calling Murray a power back when he’s really not. Has no one noticed he doesn’t hit the hole with force and how easily he gets tripped up and goes down after first contact? Murray plays like a finesse back, and I’m fine with that, but let’s not get it confused. We have two receiving backs and a finesse guy. There is no power back on this team. Dinking and dunking WILL NOT WORK without a defense that can cause turnovers and score points. At this point we can’t keep up in a shootout, and in 2020 the NFL is all about shootouts. Chiefs? Packers? Ravens? Even the Cowboys. Weapons galore and they’ll stretch the field all day long. All true, and agree. But it can be done, as you stated, if the team is built for dinking and dunking. First thing’s first though. The team has to acknowledge the following: “DB#9’s arm isn’t going to get us there anymore”. I don’t think that has been accepted, internally, yet, heck, I don’t think the idea is even allowed.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

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09-23-2020, 04:04 PM	#46
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by The Dude As mentioned above I feel the same way about Sanders. Doesn’t help that Sanders had drops. Drew won’t have any confidence in him and I can see Sanders resenting him. On a positive note Smith looked good. I think we will shake this off. After week 4 we will know what this team really is. Drops? Sanders didn't have any dropped passes. Montgomery and Cook lead the team in drops after two games with one a piece.

09-23-2020, 04:19 PM	#47
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,733	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by halloween 65 Honestly Brees looked bad. Worst than I ever seen him look. I feel for the guy. He looked sluggish and not crisp n the least. He worked all off season doing some shot putting or throwing some sort of heavy ball to increase his strength, which was his focus this year. Maybe it cost him his accuracy which is his strength. Can he get it back? My gut tells me yes...possibly for even a couple of more years. I truly believe that when the Saints O-line finds their timing, gels and gets in sync then we'll be back to a top tier unit enforcing our will on other teams. Sanders has to get comfortable in Payton's complex play book with an abbreviated intro to the offense. I believe that he'll get in tune with Drew sooner rather than later. Payton has to start using Murray more. He was obviously in the beginning of the game but as usual he got away from him. Tre' Quan still dropped balls and I believe he ran the wrong route at least once. He had good YAC though and threw a nice block for a big gain. He has to be more consistent...still has to be more consistent. Bottom line in my opinion the receivers couldn't get separation and were owned all night. The defense started Strong but then fell apart. DA never adjusted to their evolving game plan. We might have been out coached now that I think about it. There were far too many missed tackles after the initial strong start by the defense who put up a weak front four. iceshack149 likes this.
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09-23-2020, 04:28 PM	#48
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II He looked sluggish and not crisp n the least. He worked all off season doing some shot putting or throwing some sort of heavy ball to increase his strength, which was his focus this year. Maybe it cost him his accuracy which is his strength. Can he get it back? My gut tells me yes...possibly for even a couple of more years. I truly believe that when the Saints O-line finds their timing, gels and gets in sync then we'll be back to a top tier unit enforcing our will on other teams. Sanders has to get comfortable in Payton's complex play book with an abbreviated intro to the offense. I believe that he'll get in tune with Drew sooner rather than later. Payton has to start using Murray more. He was obviously in the beginning of the game but as usual he got away from him. Tre' Quan still dropped balls and I believe he ran the wrong route at least once. He had good YAC though and threw a nice block for a big gain. He has to be more consistent...still has to be more consistent. Bottom line in my opinion the receivers couldn't get separation and were owned all night. The defense started Strong but then fell apart. DA never adjusted to their evolving game plan. We might have been out coached now that I think about it. There were far too many missed tackles after the initial strong start by the defense who put up a weak front four. Penalties. The Saints now have 248 yards in penalties after the first two game. The next closest has 198. Sixteen total penalties which is 2nd in the league. That was the game. gosaints1 likes this.

09-23-2020, 06:40 PM	#49
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,657	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by halloween 65 We could of had a power back in Fornette but chose to sign Kamara to a big contract who really can't run between the tackles. As far as a shootout D. Henry might disagree with you on that. Most teams now are fast( built for the air attack) and a true powerback trucks those teams opening up the entire field. If teams are able to load the box on Brees he has to have a great run game. Kamaras not going to cut it, more of a specialty role player and not a true #1 back. Gruden just give the rest of the teams a cure to the Saints O and if Payton can't figure out something Brees is in for a long hard season under center. He's not mobile either. The Titans can stretch the field. You stack the box on them and they have a mobile QB with a strong enough arm to throw it deep in Ryan Tannehill. You stack the box on the Titans and they can take the top off. It’s pick your poison. That isn’t the situation here with the Saints. If a teams stacks the box to take away the run game nobody has to worry about Brees carving them up. Even if the run game is working it’s not going to open up the field. He’s going to dump it off whether it’s play action or out of the shotgun. The Vikings gave teams the cure and and everybody is executing it to perfection. Believe me bruh...we gotta sit him. I know everybody still has high hopes because it’s early, but this won’t get better for him. gosaints1 likes this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

09-23-2020, 06:43 PM	#50
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Defense collapsed, Payton and Drew Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Penalties. The Saints now have 148 yards in penalties after the first two game. The next closest has 198. Sixteen total penalties which is 2nd in the league. That was the game. 148? lol, I know what you meant, fat-fingered the “2” huh? lol and yes, it was a huge reason the Saints defense remained on the field as long as they did. Five first downs from the penalties was painful to watch. I still believe that Waller imposing his will had a demoralizing affect that the Saints couldn’t bounce back from. There are games within the games. The numbers/stats game, the physical game, the mental game, etc... Waller dominated the field, that hurt. Alot.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576