ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link

spkb25 · 10-01-2020, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

Eh, Sean has potential for high creativity in what he does. He does outthink himself, which ironically makes himself look simplistic. What Dennis Allen does is a bit different than what I'm talking about though. Overall though Sean Payton has an attacking mentality and yet has good balance with calling the right type of plays. When Sean Payton is in rhythm, it's a thing of beauty. Sometimes he gets out of rhythm and it just looks ugly. I trust Sean though.

Dennis Allen seems more like a probabilistic/statistical coach to me. He plays the odds, makes adjustments that raises his odds. He doesn't have an attacking mind set. Because Allen is such a statistical thinker, what he does becomes predictable. What should be a good play call for him often turns into a bad play call because it's like he never mixes things up and throws something at his opponents out of no where, so even though his play call matches the situation very well, it's far too clear what's coming. He's a guy that can't see the forest for the trees. He's a smart guy that can't escape from the logical side of things and get into the creative mindset. He gets too caught up in doing the right thing instead of trying to obfuscate at least some of the time. That's one of the reasons I think Nolan was good for him, because I think Nolan has the opposite issue. Nolan is a very out of the box type thinker. A big part of defense in the NFL is just to confuse the **** out of the QB and the offense of the other team. This doesn't seem to be something we strive for.

Must be for Gibbs, Ryan, Spags Williams. I mean how can we just keep blaming the Dcoord? At some point the finger has to point to the man at the helm, in this case SP. Spags just won another super bowl. Come on man, what did he get lucky again? Repeat after me, Sean is the problem with the defense. No matter what players or coordinator we have the defense is always the scapegoat. And somehow Sean continues to survive as if he has no blame. I didn't believe Ryan either but it is all started to make more sense now.

MatthewT · 09-30-2020, 02:46 PM

I am not sure defensive issues can be blamed on the defensive coordinator. Look at all the defensive coordinators the Saints have had during the Payton era. Gary Gibbs, Gregg Williams, Steve Spagnuolo, Rob Ryan, and Dennis Allen. Everyone of these guys are very good coaches, what is the real issue?

hitta · 09-30-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

I am not sure defensive issues can be blamed on the defensive coordinator. Look at all the defensive coordinators the Saints have had during the Payton era. Gary Gibbs, Gregg Williams, Steve Spagnuolo, Rob Ryan, and Dennis Allen. Everyone of these guys are very good coaches, what is the real issue?

We've switched schemes so many times that it's amazing that we have the talent that we do now.

K Major · 09-30-2020, 02:47 PM

Dennis Allen's scheme is trash.

He's not putting guys into position to make plays. Lose the 4-2-5 base D and bring back the 4-3 Over. 3 weeks in and we can't cover TE's. A single high safety or no safety at all and getting burned one on one. Not to mention the boot leg is absolutely killing us.

Too many high draft picks to play this poorly defensively. Elite talent still needs to be put in positions to succeed and despite specializing secondary coach + having a former DB in Glenn Allen they don't consistently succeed. Reminiscent to when the 49ers went from Mike Singletary to Jim Harbaugh with roughly the same talent.

A lot of the same concerns, different year. Our issues defensively aren't something new.

Playing better against Detroit would be a start though.

dizzle88 · 09-30-2020, 02:58 PM

As stated - too many high round draft picks to be playing this badly.

Look at the picture I added, 10 seconds into the 2nd half.

5 Saints defenders on 3 Packers receivers, we get burned for 70 yards.

PJ is responsible (shocker), hes still in his backpedal whilst Lazard is running flat out, PJ is never going to win. Obviously PJ needs to do better, but how can we as fans know that PJ is only effective the closer he is to the line, but the almighty Dennis Allen continues to put him in positions where he WILL fail!?

Thats why Dennis sucks, hes blind to certain factors. He let Waller destroy our D single handedly, no adjustments. He let Rodgers continue to roll out and launch with no pressure and all the time in the world, with shoddy secondary play already plaguing us.

ChrisXVI · 09-30-2020, 03:26 PM

Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped.

Thirty3 · 09-30-2020, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped.

Nolan was the glue and the real strategist

vpheughan · 10-01-2020, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped.

HELPED as in the "walk off" overtime loss to the Vikes?

ChrisXVI · 10-01-2020, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

HELPED as in the "walk off" overtime loss to the Vikes?

A fair point. That would fall more on Aaron Glenn.

AsylumGuido · 10-01-2020, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

A fair point. That would fall more on Aaron Glenn.

No. That would fall on the players executing. Coaches get too much credit and too much blame at times.

10-01-2020, 01:53 AM	#1
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,115	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by hitta Eh, Sean has potential for high creativity in what he does. He does outthink himself, which ironically makes himself look simplistic. What Dennis Allen does is a bit different than what I'm talking about though. Overall though Sean Payton has an attacking mentality and yet has good balance with calling the right type of plays. When Sean Payton is in rhythm, it's a thing of beauty. Sometimes he gets out of rhythm and it just looks ugly. I trust Sean though. Dennis Allen seems more like a probabilistic/statistical coach to me. He plays the odds, makes adjustments that raises his odds. He doesn't have an attacking mind set. Because Allen is such a statistical thinker, what he does becomes predictable. What should be a good play call for him often turns into a bad play call because it's like he never mixes things up and throws something at his opponents out of no where, so even though his play call matches the situation very well, it's far too clear what's coming. He's a guy that can't see the forest for the trees. He's a smart guy that can't escape from the logical side of things and get into the creative mindset. He gets too caught up in doing the right thing instead of trying to obfuscate at least some of the time. That's one of the reasons I think Nolan was good for him, because I think Nolan has the opposite issue. Nolan is a very out of the box type thinker. A big part of defense in the NFL is just to confuse the **** out of the QB and the offense of the other team. This doesn't seem to be something we strive for. Must be for Gibbs, Ryan, Spags Williams. I mean how can we just keep blaming the Dcoord? At some point the finger has to point to the man at the helm, in this case SP. Spags just won another super bowl. Come on man, what did he get lucky again? Repeat after me, Sean is the problem with the defense. No matter what players or coordinator we have the defense is always the scapegoat. And somehow Sean continues to survive as if he has no blame. I didn't believe Ryan either but it is all started to make more sense now.
	Your team stinks

09-30-2020, 02:46 PM	#2
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link I am not sure defensive issues can be blamed on the defensive coordinator. Look at all the defensive coordinators the Saints have had during the Payton era. Gary Gibbs, Gregg Williams, Steve Spagnuolo, Rob Ryan, and Dennis Allen. Everyone of these guys are very good coaches, what is the real issue? spkb25, Rsanders24 and The Dude like this.

09-30-2020, 02:50 PM	#3
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by MatthewT I am not sure defensive issues can be blamed on the defensive coordinator. Look at all the defensive coordinators the Saints have had during the Payton era. Gary Gibbs, Gregg Williams, Steve Spagnuolo, Rob Ryan, and Dennis Allen. Everyone of these guys are very good coaches, what is the real issue? We've switched schemes so many times that it's amazing that we have the talent that we do now.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,331

09-30-2020, 02:47 PM	#4
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Dennis Allen's scheme is trash. He's not putting guys into position to make plays. Lose the 4-2-5 base D and bring back the 4-3 Over. 3 weeks in and we can't cover TE's. A single high safety or no safety at all and getting burned one on one. Not to mention the boot leg is absolutely killing us. Too many high draft picks to play this poorly defensively. Elite talent still needs to be put in positions to succeed and despite specializing secondary coach + having a former DB in Glenn Allen they don't consistently succeed. Reminiscent to when the 49ers went from Mike Singletary to Jim Harbaugh with roughly the same talent. A lot of the same concerns, different year. Our issues defensively aren't something new. Playing better against Detroit would be a start though. dizzle88, 73Saint, WW_Who_Dat and 1 others like this.

09-30-2020, 02:58 PM	#5
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link As stated - too many high round draft picks to be playing this badly. Look at the picture I added, 10 seconds into the 2nd half. 5 Saints defenders on 3 Packers receivers, we get burned for 70 yards. PJ is responsible (shocker), hes still in his backpedal whilst Lazard is running flat out, PJ is never going to win. Obviously PJ needs to do better, but how can we as fans know that PJ is only effective the closer he is to the line, but the almighty Dennis Allen continues to put him in positions where he WILL fail!? Thats why Dennis sucks, hes blind to certain factors. He let Waller destroy our D single handedly, no adjustments. He let Rodgers continue to roll out and launch with no pressure and all the time in the world, with shoddy secondary play already plaguing us. Attached Thumbnails
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

09-30-2020, 03:26 PM	#6
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped. dizzle88, 73Saint, K Major and 1 others like this.

09-30-2020, 04:32 PM	#7
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped. Nolan was the glue and the real strategist ChrisXVI and K Major like this.
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255

10-01-2020, 12:15 PM	#8
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,543	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Almost makes you wonder just how much Mike Nolan helped. HELPED as in the "walk off" overtime loss to the Vikes? ChrisXVI and gosaints1 like this.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,543

10-01-2020, 03:41 PM	#9
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by vpheughan HELPED as in the "walk off" overtime loss to the Vikes? A fair point. That would fall more on Aaron Glenn.

10-01-2020, 04:07 PM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: ive always thought Dennis Allen is the weak link Originally Posted by ChrisXVI A fair point. That would fall more on Aaron Glenn. No. That would fall on the players executing. Coaches get too much credit and too much blame at times. ChrisXVI likes this.

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