Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report

AsylumGuido · 10-04-2020, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

So when do they get the experience? If you believe in them, drafted them, or signed them, play them! Let them grow and do your job and coach them...

How about playing them for more than two or three snaps a game to start with. LOL! That's Dennis Allen's call. Maybe Nolan would have had him more ready.

dizzle88 · 10-04-2020, 11:08 AM

One thing I will say, the offense is better without Andrus Peat and they proved that vs Packers.

jeanpierre · 10-04-2020, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

How about playing them for more than two or three snaps a game to start with. LOL! That's Dennis Allen's call. Maybe Nolan would have had him more ready.

Considering all the HOF LBers who have Mike Nolan's name attached to their resumes, I'm gonna geaux with glass half full on that Maybe...

AsylumGuido · 10-04-2020, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

How confident are you? Looks like there is no way for the Saints to win. Give me odds straight up no points? 2:1? Small bet. Your $20 to my $10. Venmo transfer.

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

I’m a moron bro... I’ve never done such a thing and I don’t know how this all works. I’ll give you odds straight up... I’ll probably have to mail you mail you a check because I don’t know s*** about Venmo .

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Worth a try, Chris. I'll teach you Venmo. If you have a checking account it is immediate. $20 AND I'll help you set up your Venmo account.

LOL!

Even if you send that $20 by Pony Express I'll sure as hell take it.

Who Dat, Chris!!!

ChrisXVI · 10-04-2020, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Even if you send that $20 by Pony Express I'll sure as hell take it.

Who Dat, Chris!!!

Private message sent.

gosaints1 · 10-04-2020, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Considering all the HOF LBers who have Mike Nolan's name attached to their resumes, I'm gonna geaux with glass half full on that Maybe...

Nolan may very well have been one heckuva position coach. But, A good argument can be made that he wasn’t responsible for any of those HOF’ers, they were going to be HOF’ers even if Daffy Duck was their position coach. It’s entirely possible I’m minimizing his impact on their careers though, to be fair. I just think special athletes (HOF types) arrive special, day one and get better as their confidence grows. As far as him being a defensive coordinator, great goobly moobly, just look at his current defense, it’s one of the worst defenses I’ve ever seen in my entire life. He may not make it through this season, rumors are already starting in Big D, and we know JJ will can a coach in an instant if he feels the replacement is better. And, imho, Daffy Duck would be better running the D in Big D right now.

jeanpierre · 10-04-2020, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

Nolan may very well have been one heckuva position coach. But, A good argument can be made that he wasn’t responsible for any of those HOF’ers, they were going to be HOF’ers even if Daffy Duck was their position coach. It’s entirely possible I’m minimizing his impact on their careers though, to be fair. I just think special athletes (HOF types) arrive special, day one and get better as their confidence grows. As far as him being a defensive coordinator, great goobly moobly, just look at his current defense, it’s one of the worst defenses I’ve ever seen in my entire life. He may not make it through this season, rumors are already starting in Big D, and we know JJ will can a coach in an instant if he feels the replacement is better. And, imho, Daffy Duck would be better running the D in Big D right now.

Seen enough to know Mike Nolan is invaluable; look Jerruh's Big D is as dysfunctional as it is; good coaches hired and are constantly dealing with an owner, son who have a "special relationship with their players"...

That translates to a lot of confusion for players and the chain of command; they end up ignoring, respecting coaches as they'll only listen to the guy signing the checks...

You can even make a converse argument that Dennis Allen, Saints LBers have regressed without Mike Nolan here in the short time he's been gone with that logic; but it's too soon for all except maybe DA...

gosaints1 · 10-04-2020, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Seen enough to know Mike Nolan is invaluable; look Jerruh's Big D is as dysfunctional as it is; good coaches hired and are constantly dealing with an owner, son who have a "special relationship with their players"...

That translates to a lot of confusion for players and the chain of command; they end up ignoring, respecting coaches as they'll only listen to the guy signing the checks...

You can even make a converse argument that Dennis Allen, Saints LBers have regressed without Mike Nolan here in the short time he's been gone with that logic; but it's too soon for all except maybe DA...

I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen, I just don’t see the “Nolan is/would be better” argument either.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...12680_33013019

jeanpierre · 10-05-2020, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen, I just don’t see the “Nolan is/would be better” argument either.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...12680_33013019

Well, we know these givens...

Dennis Allen has been the DC since 2015...

Mike Nolan was hired as LB coach starting 2017...

Per ProFootball Reference the Saints have ranked defensively as follows

2020 26th (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2020 NFL Team Defense

2019 13th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2019 NFL Team Defense

2018 14th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2018 NFL Team Defense

2017 10th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2017 NFL Team Defense

2016 31st (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2016 NFL Team Defense

2015 32nd (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2015 NFL Team Defense

So, I'd say Dick Nolan, on staff, had a significant impact; and without him on staff, Dennis Allen has been a clusterphuck as a defensive coordinator...

gosaints1 · 10-05-2020, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Well, we know these givens...

Dennis Allen has been the DC since 2015...

Mike Nolan was hired as LB coach starting 2017...

Per ProFootball Reference the Saints have ranked defensively as follows

2020 26th (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2020 NFL Team Defense

2019 13th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2019 NFL Team Defense

2018 14th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2018 NFL Team Defense

2017 10th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2017 NFL Team Defense

2016 31st (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2016 NFL Team Defense

2015 32nd (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2015 NFL Team Defense

So, I'd say Dick Nolan, on staff, had a significant impact; and without him on staff, Dennis Allen has been a clusterphuck as a defensive coordinator...

1) Dick Nolan? Having flashbacks to the mid 70’s, lol, I know who you meant, it just took a second for me to go down a non pleasant memory lane. Another former Saints LB position coach who tried his hand at a higher position, and didn’t do so well, oof some of us remember that 1980 season and the resulting fallout from historically bad teams..., hmmmm..., I wonder if the two are related.

2) For the 2020 season, not counting week 4, football outsiders has the Saints ranked at 12th overall DVOA. 6th against the run and 21st against the pass. Regardless, I’ll play devil’s advocate and use your 2020 defensive ranking web site for reference. Saints were 26th, that must be bad, and I’d agree it’s nothing to be proud of. But 26 pales in comparison to the team who is dead last on that list, oh.., and guess who would be the DC for that team? Oh..., none other than Mike Nolan. Yes..., that Mike Nolan. Right now, I would much rather have our 26 than Nolan’s 32. His defense is abysmally bad, historically bad, a failure, under his direct leadership, rarely seen, right up there with the worst defenses ever in my ½ century of life.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020

3) Dennis Allen wasn’t the defensive coordinator for the 2015 season initially. Rob Ryan was the DC when the season began, that defense was his baby, it was his install, at least until he was fired (thank the Lord) mid Nov, iirc.

I’m neither defending Allen nor elevating Nolan to any degree. I’m simply evaluating each one, at one specific position which is as a DC. Bottom line is that a good position coach does not make a good defensive coordinator. And replacing one coordinator that sucks with another that sucks exponentially worse just makes no sense to me.

10-04-2020, 10:57 AM	#31
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,208	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by jeanpierre *So when do they get the experience? If you believe in them, drafted them, or signed them, play them! Let them grow and do your job* and coach them...** How about playing them for more than two or three snaps a game to start with. LOL! That's Dennis Allen's call. Maybe Nolan would have had him more ready.

10-04-2020, 11:08 AM	#32
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report One thing I will say, the offense is better without Andrus Peat and they proved that vs Packers.

10-04-2020, 01:01 PM	#33
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido How about playing them for more than two or three snaps a game to start with. LOL! That's Dennis Allen's call. Maybe Nolan would have had him more ready. *Considering all the HOF LBers who have Mike Nolan's name attached to their resumes, I'm gonna geaux with glass half full on that Maybe...* gosaints1 and K Major like this.

10-04-2020, 04:10 PM	#34
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,208	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido How confident are you? Looks like there is no way for the Saints to win. Give me odds straight up no points? 2:1? Small bet. Your $20 to my $10. Venmo transfer. Originally Posted by ChrisXVI I’m a moron bro... I’ve never done such a thing and I don’t know how this all works. I’ll give you odds straight up... I’ll probably have to mail you mail you a check because I don’t know s* about Venmo . Originally Posted by AsylumGuido** Worth a try, Chris. I'll teach you Venmo. If you have a checking account it is immediate. $20 AND I'll help you set up your Venmo account. LOL! Even if you send that $20 by Pony Express I'll sure as hell take it. Who Dat, Chris!!! ChrisXVI likes this.

10-04-2020, 07:54 PM	#35
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Even if you send that $20 by Pony Express I'll sure as hell take it. Who Dat, Chris!!! Private message sent.

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10-04-2020, 08:22 PM	#36
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Considering all the HOF LBers who have Mike Nolan's name attached to their resumes, I'm gonna geaux with glass half full on that Maybe...* Nolan may very well have been one heckuva position coach. But, A good argument can be made that he wasn’t responsible for any of those HOF’ers, they were going to be HOF’ers even if Daffy Duck was their position coach. It’s entirely possible I’m minimizing his impact on their careers though, to be fair. I just think special athletes (HOF types) arrive special, day one and get better as their confidence grows. As far as him being a defensive coordinator, great goobly moobly, just look at his current defense, it’s one of the worst defenses I’ve ever seen in my entire life. He may not make it through this season, rumors are already starting in Big D, and we know JJ will can a coach in an instant if he feels the replacement is better. And, imho, Daffy Duck would be better running the D in Big D right now.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-04-2020, 10:28 PM	#37
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by gosaints1 Nolan may very well have been one heckuva position coach. But, A good argument can be made that he wasn’t responsible for any of those HOF’ers, they were going to be HOF’ers even if Daffy Duck was their position coach. It’s entirely possible I’m minimizing his impact on their careers though, to be fair. I just think special athletes (HOF types) arrive special, day one and get better as their confidence grows. As far as him being a defensive coordinator, great goobly moobly, just look at his current defense, it’s one of the worst defenses I’ve ever seen in my entire life. He may not make it through this season, rumors are already starting in Big D, and we know JJ will can a coach in an instant if he feels the replacement is better. And, imho, Daffy Duck would be better running the D in Big D right now. Seen enough to know Mike Nolan is invaluable; look Jerruh's Big D is as dysfunctional as it is; good coaches hired and are constantly dealing with an owner, son who have a "special relationship with their players"... That translates to a lot of confusion for players and the chain of command; they end up ignoring, respecting coaches as they'll only listen to the guy signing the checks... You can even make a converse argument that Dennis Allen, Saints LBers have regressed without Mike Nolan here in the short time he's been gone with that logic; but it's too soon for all except maybe DA... gosaints1 likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

10-04-2020, 11:59 PM	#38
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by jeanpierre Seen enough to know Mike Nolan is invaluable; look Jerruh's Big D is as dysfunctional as it is; good coaches hired and are constantly dealing with an owner, son who have a "special relationship with their players"... That translates to a lot of confusion for players and the chain of command; they end up ignoring, respecting coaches as they'll only listen to the guy signing the checks... You can even make a converse argument that Dennis Allen, Saints LBers have regressed without Mike Nolan here in the short time he's been gone with that logic; but it's too soon for all except maybe DA... I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen, I just don’t see the “Nolan is/would be better” argument either. https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...12680_33013019
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-05-2020, 01:34 AM	#39
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by gosaints1 I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen, I just don’t see the “Nolan is/would be better” argument either. https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...12680_33013019 Well, we know these givens... Dennis Allen has been the DC since 2015... Mike Nolan was hired as LB coach starting 2017... Per ProFootball Reference the Saints have ranked defensively as follows 2020 26th (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2020 NFL Team Defense 2019 13th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2019 NFL Team Defense 2018 14th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2018 NFL Team Defense 2017 10th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2017 NFL Team Defense 2016 31st (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2016 NFL Team Defense 2015 32nd (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2015 NFL Team Defense So, I'd say Dick Nolan, on staff, had a significant impact; and without him on staff, Dennis Allen has been a clusterphuck as a defensive coordinator... K Major likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

10-05-2020, 10:01 AM	#40
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Week 4: Saints Final Injury Report Originally Posted by jeanpierre Well, we know these givens... Dennis Allen has been the DC since 2015... Mike Nolan was hired as LB coach starting 2017... Per ProFootball Reference the Saints have ranked defensively as follows 2020 26th (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2020 NFL Team Defense 2019 13th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2019 NFL Team Defense 2018 14th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2018 NFL Team Defense 2017 10th (Dennis Allen and Dick Nolan) 2017 NFL Team Defense 2016 31st (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2016 NFL Team Defense 2015 32nd (Dennis Allen without Dick Nolan) 2015 NFL Team Defense So, I'd say Dick Nolan, on staff, had a significant impact; and without him on staff, Dennis Allen has been a clusterphuck as a defensive coordinator... 1) Dick Nolan? Having flashbacks to the mid 70’s, lol, I know who you meant, it just took a second for me to go down a non pleasant memory lane. Another former Saints LB position coach who tried his hand at a higher position, and didn’t do so well, oof some of us remember that 1980 season and the resulting fallout from historically bad teams..., hmmmm..., I wonder if the two are related. 2) For the 2020 season, not counting week 4, football outsiders has the Saints ranked at 12th overall DVOA. 6th against the run and 21st against the pass. Regardless, I’ll play devil’s advocate and use your 2020 defensive ranking web site for reference. Saints were 26th, that must be bad, and I’d agree it’s nothing to be proud of. But 26 pales in comparison to the team who is dead last on that list, oh.., and guess who would be the DC for that team? Oh..., none other than Mike Nolan. Yes..., that Mike Nolan. Right now, I would much rather have our 26 than Nolan’s 32. His defense is abysmally bad, historically bad, a failure, under his direct leadership, rarely seen, right up there with the worst defenses ever in my ½ century of life. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020 3) Dennis Allen wasn’t the defensive coordinator for the 2015 season initially. Rob Ryan was the DC when the season began, that defense was his baby, it was his install, at least until he was fired (thank the Lord) mid Nov, iirc. I’m neither defending Allen nor elevating Nolan to any degree. I’m simply evaluating each one, at one specific position which is as a DC. Bottom line is that a good position coach does not make a good defensive coordinator. And replacing one coordinator that sucks with another that sucks exponentially worse just makes no sense to me.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576