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KC Plan Against Kamara
this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by K Major It would be nice to see that flipped to 34 rushes and 17 pass attempts once we hit post season . Probably wishful thinking on my part though. Remember Mike Shanahan featuring Terrell Davis over ...
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12-24-2020, 12:23 AM
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#11 |
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Site Donor 2018
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by K Major
Remember Mike Shanahan featuring Terrell Davis over the great John Elway to not one but two Superbowl wins by running the ball more than passing...
That was John Elway, who some argued was the greatest QB ever at that time... |
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12-24-2020, 01:47 AM
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#12 |
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500th Post
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 576
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
The New Orleans Saints do not have a Terrell Davis running back outside of Murray. We tried that “run all the time mantra”..., it was the Ditka era. Football has changed a lot in the over 20+ years since Terrell Davis rushed 30 times for over 150 yards and 25 times for over 100 yards in their back to back SB’s, iirc.
Regardless, I’ll do my best to address my way of looking at Kamara being “taken out by CSP”. Every game rushing stats for Kamara this season: Week 1: 12 carries, 16 yards 1 TD Saints win 34-23 over the Bucs Week 2: 13 carries, 79 yards 2 TD’s, Saints lose 34-24 to Da Raiders Week 3: 6 carries, 58 yards, Saints lose 37-30 to the Pack Week 4: 19 carries, 83 yards, 1 TD, Saints win 35-29 over the Lions Week 5: 11 carries, 45 yards, Saints OT win 30-27 over the Chargers Week 6: Bye Week 7: 14 carries, 83 yards, Saints win 27-24 over Carolina Week 8: 12 carries, 67 yards, Saints OT win over Da Bears Week 9: 9 carries, 40 yards, 1 TD, Saints demolish TB 38-3 Week 10: 8 carries, 15 yards, 2 TD’s, Saints win 27-13 over the 49’ers Week 11: 13 carries, 45 yards, 1 TD, Saints win 24-9 over the Falcons Week 12: 11 carries, 54 yards, Saints win 31-3 over no QB Broncos Week 13: 15 carries, 88 yards, 1 TD, Saints win 21-16 over the Falcons Week 14: 11 carries, 50 yards 1 TD, Saints lose 24-21 to Philly Week 15: 11 carries, 54 yards, Saints lose 32-29 to KC Throwing out the low rush (anomalous stat) of 6 in week 3, and also the high rush stat from week 4 of 19, along with the bye and you have Kamara rushing the ball 140 times over 12 games. That’s just under 12 touches per game. Bottom line, Saints are 10-4 with Kamara roughly at the 11 to 12 touches per game mark. I truly don’t see the correlation between feeding him specifically more rushes and winning more games. Amount of touches in the KC game wasn’t unusual. If you believe CSP “took Kamara out” of the KC game, then you must believe he has also taken him out of every other game this season also, sans the 19 carry game. And I have been, still am, a Huge Kamara fan, along with CGM. Easily two of my favorite Saints. But Kamara, nor Murray are Terrell Davis. Regardless, I’ll be away from the forums a bit, Holiday travel in just a few hours, hopefully I’ll be in the gameday chat this Friday, but when I’m with family, they are my priority. My digital devices go away, completely, lol, the Luddite in me. I do enjoy these debates, I learn a ton from everybody else. These are just my opinions, doesn’t mean I’m right, or that I devalue any other’s opinions. It simply means I see the numbers in different ways! I hope everyone is safe, with loved ones if possible, and you have all the gingerbread cookies a person could ask for. I truly do. |
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12-24-2020, 05:57 AM
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#13 |
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10000 POST CLUB
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Shreveport,Louisiana
Posts: 16,046
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
I will address the “taken out by CSP”
Kamara was averaging 5 yds a carry against one of the worst run defense teams in the NFL and Brees admittingly had '... a little way to go.' Why would you not continue to call running plays? After the initial 14-0 start the game was not so far out of hand that the Saints had to throw every down. I still believe that Taysom would have given the Saints the best chance of beating KC, not because Hill is a better QB, but he has 2 weapons that Brees doesn't: 1. Scrambling 2. The long ball |
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"A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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12-24-2020, 07:05 AM
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#14 |
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10000 POST CLUB
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cypress Tx.
Posts: 19,026
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by gosaints1
The Kamara stat was showing that we could run on them, he had 19 carries on Detroit and 15 on Atlanta but arguing Kamara’s durability is moot.
This is a ‘bigger picture’ discussion. The discussion about going into a game using your weakest facet and attacking their strength and expecting to win against Patrick Mahommes with that cr4p. KC gives up an average of 123 yards rushing per game and we left 60 yards of that on the field. Mahommes generally comes out in the 3rd/4th quarter and blisters defenses, we needed to control the clock on the ground to keep our defense as fresh as possible for that 2nd half. Remember that other RB we have Murray, the one that didn’t get a touch until the 4th possession? We never committed to a run game 0-6 passing to start the game tells me that is where we committed. So to summarize, we faced a 21st (I believe they were 26th before we decided to not run on them) ranked rushing defense that also happens to rank #2 in interceptions with practice squad receivers a rusty QB and our running backs on the bench. How did we do? Threw an interception that led to 7 for the opponent, and only ran 1 RB the first three possessions. Our first two possessions were 2 runs, 4 passes and an INT. We had not run enough to know it was shut down at this point. We can bull**** ourselves all we want pretending that KC shut our run down or we can recognize that it was the performance on the sidelines and not the field that led to a loss. FYI in case we have not noticed, our kicker is in a slump. Lutz hasn’t made a FG since Denver, missed 3 of his last 3 attempts and the Phi loss was within the margin of his misses. He didn’t miss against KC because the offense couldn’t get him close enough to attempt one. |
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It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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12-24-2020, 08:00 AM
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#15 |
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Site Donor 2018
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lafayette
Posts: 7,753
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by gosaints1
Have a wonderful Christmas And god bless Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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12-24-2020, 09:03 AM
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#17 |
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100% Blunt
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Saint Gabriel, La
Posts: 2,754
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by K Major
I can tell you, K. Basically like most Zimmer/Payton matches, abandon the run early and play into zimmers gameplan to stop us |
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12-24-2020, 09:14 AM
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#18 |
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Site Donor 2019
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83
Dalvin Cook vs Kwon Alexander
Theilan /Justin Jefferson (IMO will be rookie of the year) vs Jenkins /Lattimore. Brees vs Vikes D & Harrison Smith on the back end. I'm looking forward to watching these match ups. |
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12-24-2020, 09:32 AM
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#19 |
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10000 POST CLUB
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bossier City, LA
Posts: 26,220
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
Originally Posted by K Major
The game plan and what plays are actually executed during the game can differ quite a bit. That's the point Coach Weis was trying to make. I have zero doubt the game plan is ALWAYS to run the ball as much as possible. But Payton's philosophy has ALWAYS been to take what the defense offers. It all comes down to execution whether the play is a run or a pass.
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12-24-2020, 09:40 AM
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#20 |
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1000 Posts +
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Re: KC Plan Against Kamara
It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working.
We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box. Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws. With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws. But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert. |
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