SI.com/Bob Rose | Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams

jeanpierre · 01-15-2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Tell that to the Vikings with their 15 picks. More picks do not necessarily mean better picks. If you can evaluate talent efficiently and targeting that talent means moving up to absolutely make sure you get that talent, then settling for more players deemed lesser is not better.

As for 2017, it wasn't the number of the picks, it was the quality of the players taken with those picks. I don't know if you play darts or not, but if I was given a choice of throwing a fist full of darts at one time and five darts one at a time I would bet the bank on getting more bullseyes on those five darts every time.

Yes, perennial winners do build through the draft. Those winners don't need a ton of picks to accomplish that, however.

And we all know you well enough to know how much the draft and the evaluation of the draftees means to you. No need for satellite radio to show us that.

Oh, and I listen to XM, not Sirius.

So you blatantly ignore that the Saints biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons to contender was because of the 2017 draft?

That draft yielded Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alvin Kamara, Alex Anzalone, and Trey Hendrickson?

Take any one of those players away from that haul and is this team an elite contender the last four seasons?

No. Because each one, with the exception of Anzalone, has produced at an elite level - keeping those positions from being a liability...

It was the draft and a lot of picks in that draft that put us there. It's the elephant in the room you ignore because you've got fingers in your ears and your eyes closed so you won't face you are wrong...

AsylumGuido · 01-15-2021, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

So you blatantly ignore that the Saints biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons to contender was because of the 2017 draft?

That draft yielded Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alvin Kamara, Alex Anzalone, and Trey Hendrickson?

Take any one of those players away from that haul and is this team an elite contender the last four seasons?

No. Because each one, with the exception of Anzalone, has produced at an elite level - keeping those positions from being a liability...

It was the draft and a lot of picks in that draft that put us there. It's the elephant in the room you ignore because you've got fingers in your ears and your eyes closed so you won't face you are wrong...

Where have I ever said that drafts aren't important, JP? The biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons was it being the third year of our major rebuild. The fortunate draft was a part of that rebuild. Free agents A.J. Klein, Larry Warford, Alex Okafer, and Ted Ginn were also meaningful additions in 2017. But, yes, the draft class was special. Would it have been better if we had five more draft picks? Probably not since to have more picks we would have had to have traded down to acquire them. Like I said before, making good use of your picks is far more important than having a larger number of picks. Quality over quantity any day ... just like the 2017 draft class.

We didn't have "a lot of picks in that draft". The fact is we had the normal number of draft picks in 2017 ... seven. Six of those seven came in the first three rounds, however. The key was not the number of picks, but the quality of those picks. The quality was there because of where the picks fell. Higher round picks will usually be more impactful if the draft is done correctly, right? Would you rather have six picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) in the first three rounds or 15 picks with only three picks in the first three rounds?

gosaints1 · 01-15-2021, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

...Higher round picks will usually be more impactful if the draft is done correctly, right? Would you rather have six picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) in the first three rounds or 15 picks with only three picks in the first three rounds?

Not always, “usually”?, not so sure about that either. Go back previous to the 2017 draft and look at our “high round” success. Guys like Stephone Anthony would like a word with you, and imho, he isn’t alone, Grayson, Kikaha, Baptiste, Vaccarro, JJenkins, etc... Bottom line, you gotta have draft choices though, and the fewer you have the fewer options you have. Personally, I enjoyed the movement to get Two Firsts..., but a fair argument can be made that the price paid was WAY too steep, and quite a few here would safely argue it has been proven through his play. It’s a logic I would completely understand. Otherwise, just trade all your draft picks, including future picks away for that “high round” guy you absolutely need, and is considered a sure thing. Then, lol, join Ditka for a round of golf or two on draft day.

AsylumGuido · 01-15-2021, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

Not always, “usually”?, not so sure about that either. Go back previous to the 2017 draft and look at our “high round” success. Guys like Stephone Anthony would like a word with you, and imho, he isn’t alone, Grayson, Kikaha, Baptiste, Vaccarro, JJenkins, etc... Bottom line, you gotta have draft choices though, and the fewer you have the fewer options you have. Personally, I enjoyed the movement to get Two Firsts..., but a fair argument can be made that the price paid was WAY too steep, and quite a few here would safely argue it has been proven through his play. It’s a logic I would completely understand. Otherwise, just trade all your draft picks, including future picks away for that “high round” guy you absolutely need, and is considered a sure thing. Then, lol, join Ditka for a round of golf or two on draft day.

Yes, usually you would expect higher round picks to be more successful. Have we had misses in high rounds? Absolutely. Would you rather have the 6 high round picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) we had in 2017 or 15 total picks with 3 in the first three rounds and the other 12 in rounds 5 through 7?

The quality of the pick locations (rounds available) with all other factors being the same (same people making the picks) is more impactful than the quantity of picks. Do you not agree?

ChrisXVI · 01-15-2021, 07:18 PM

This thread made me realize I can’t wait for JP’s 2021 draft thread!

jeanpierre · 01-19-2021, 02:02 PM

Rsanders24 and K Major like this.

Rsanders24 · 01-19-2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

https://twitter.com/TheSaintsWire/st...96105792958464

Another potential 3rd round pick? I’m interested to see how Glenn would do as a DC.

jeanpierre · 01-20-2021, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Rsanders24

Another potential 3rd round pick? I’m interested to see how Glenn would do as a DC.

We're gonna need several Day 2 picks to get under the cap...

jeanpierre · 01-24-2021, 08:48 PM

K Major likes this.

K Major · 01-24-2021, 08:51 PM

Good luck to Joe.

He has a promising young talented QB to work with.

01-15-2021, 11:54 AM	#41
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Tell that to the Vikings with their 15 picks. More picks do not necessarily mean better picks. If you can evaluate talent efficiently and targeting that talent means moving up to absolutely make sure you get that talent, then settling for more players deemed lesser is not better. As for 2017, it wasn't the number of the picks, it was the quality of the players taken with those picks. I don't know if you play darts or not, but if I was given a choice of throwing a fist full of darts at one time and five darts one at a time I would bet the bank on getting more bullseyes on those five darts every time. Yes, perennial winners do build through the draft. Those winners don't need a ton of picks to accomplish that, however. And we all know you well enough to know how much the draft and the evaluation of the draftees means to you. No need for satellite radio to show us that. Oh, and I listen to XM, not Sirius. So you blatantly ignore that the Saints biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons to contender was because of the 2017 draft? That draft yielded Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alvin Kamara, Alex Anzalone, and Trey Hendrickson? Take any one of those players away from that haul and is this team an elite contender the last four seasons? No. Because each one, with the exception of Anzalone, has produced at an elite level - keeping those positions from being a liability... It was the draft and a lot of picks in that draft that put us there. It's the elephant in the room you ignore because you've got fingers in your ears and your eyes closed so you won't face you are wrong... SmashMouth, gosaints1 and K Major like this.
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01-15-2021, 03:20 PM	#42
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by jeanpierre So you blatantly ignore that the Saints biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons to contender was because of the 2017 draft? That draft yielded Lattimore, Ramczyk, Marcus Williams, Alvin Kamara, Alex Anzalone, and Trey Hendrickson? Take any one of those players away from that haul and is this team an elite contender the last four seasons? No. Because each one, with the exception of Anzalone, has produced at an elite level - keeping those positions from being a liability... It was the draft and a lot of picks in that draft that put us there. It's the elephant in the room you ignore because you've got fingers in your ears and your eyes closed so you won't face you are wrong... Where have I ever said that drafts aren't important, JP? The biggest jump from the 7-9 seasons was it being the third year of our major rebuild. The fortunate draft was a part of that rebuild. Free agents A.J. Klein, Larry Warford, Alex Okafer, and Ted Ginn were also meaningful additions in 2017. But, yes, the draft class was special. Would it have been better if we had five more draft picks? Probably not since to have more picks we would have had to have traded down to acquire them. Like I said before, making good use of your picks is far more important than having a larger number of picks. Quality over quantity any day ... just like the 2017 draft class. We didn't have "a lot of picks in that draft". The fact is we had the normal number of draft picks in 2017 ... seven. Six of those seven came in the first three rounds, however. The key was not the number of picks, but the quality of those picks. The quality was there because of where the picks fell. Higher round picks will usually be more impactful if the draft is done correctly, right? Would you rather have six picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) in the first three rounds or 15 picks with only three picks in the first three rounds?
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-15-2021, 04:29 PM	#43
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by AsylumGuido ...Higher round picks will usually be more impactful if the draft is done correctly, right? Would you rather have six picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) in the first three rounds or 15 picks with only three picks in the first three rounds? Not always, “usually”?, not so sure about that either. Go back previous to the 2017 draft and look at our “high round” success. Guys like Stephone Anthony would like a word with you, and imho, he isn’t alone, Grayson, Kikaha, Baptiste, Vaccarro, JJenkins, etc... Bottom line, you gotta have draft choices though, and the fewer you have the fewer options you have. Personally, I enjoyed the movement to get Two Firsts..., but a fair argument can be made that the price paid was WAY too steep, and quite a few here would safely argue it has been proven through his play. It’s a logic I would completely understand. Otherwise, just trade all your draft picks, including future picks away for that “high round” guy you absolutely need, and is considered a sure thing. Then, lol, join Ditka for a round of golf or two on draft day.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

01-15-2021, 05:28 PM	#44
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by gosaints1 Not always, “usually”?, not so sure about that either. Go back previous to the 2017 draft and look at our “high round” success. Guys like Stephone Anthony would like a word with you, and imho, he isn’t alone, Grayson, Kikaha, Baptiste, Vaccarro, JJenkins, etc... Bottom line, you gotta have draft choices though, and the fewer you have the fewer options you have. Personally, I enjoyed the movement to get Two Firsts..., but a fair argument can be made that the price paid was WAY too steep, and quite a few here would safely argue it has been proven through his play. It’s a logic I would completely understand. Otherwise, just trade all your draft picks, including future picks away for that “high round” guy you absolutely need, and is considered a sure thing. Then, lol, join Ditka for a round of golf or two on draft day. Yes, usually you would expect higher round picks to be more successful. Have we had misses in high rounds? Absolutely. Would you rather have the 6 high round picks (two 1st's, one 2nd, and three 3rd's) we had in 2017 or 15 total picks with 3 in the first three rounds and the other 12 in rounds 5 through 7? The quality of the pick locations (rounds available) with all other factors being the same (same people making the picks) is more impactful than the quantity of picks. Do you not agree? Rugby Saint II and gosaints1 like this.

01-15-2021, 07:18 PM	#45
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams This thread made me realize I can’t wait for JP’s 2021 draft thread! jeanpierre, Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

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01-19-2021, 02:02 PM	#46
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Twitter Rsanders24 and K Major like this.

01-19-2021, 02:42 PM	#47
Rsanders24 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, LA. Posts: 1,482	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by jeanpierre https://twitter.com/TheSaintsWire/st...96105792958464 Another potential 3rd round pick? I’m interested to see how Glenn would do as a DC.

01-20-2021, 04:25 AM	#48
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Originally Posted by Rsanders24 Another potential 3rd round pick? I’m interested to see how Glenn would do as a DC. We're gonna need several Day 2 picks to get under the cap...

01-24-2021, 08:48 PM	#49
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Twitter K Major likes this.

01-24-2021, 08:51 PM	#50
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: SI.com/Bob Rose \| Saints Assistants Getting Attention from NFL Teams Good luck to Joe. He has a promising young talented QB to work with. jeanpierre likes this.