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  1. Old Comment
    saintfan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Well Xan, you are right about one thing. There is very little difference between Wikileaks and the NY Times - both are liberal in their conception to the very extreme, and both are irresponsible to a fault. You have taken pot shots at FOX news in the past. Are you prepared to recognize the NY Times equally guilty only with an opposite agenda? One cannot help but wonder if your son or daughter were currently in the field in the desert if you'd be so eager to have sensitive information as it relates to his or her whereabouts and intentions leaked to the enemy. Perhaps it just doesn't hit close enough to home for you.

    If you don't like the war, that's fine. Call your senators and congressmen. March on the White House Lawn. George Bush did NOT circumvent the process as you and others subtly suggest. Your agenda is clear, and I respect the spirit, but you are misguided. I am not alone in my distaste for what wikileaks is doing. Even the most liberal in Washington have spoken out against it.

    As for the 'precedent' you speak of and the Pentagon papers, hog wash. HOG WASH INDEED! The Pentagon papers fiasco was a political tool and was, in essence, an accumulation of top secret documents exposed by the righteous in an effort to circumvent the system - to get their way at all costs and without concern for collateral damage. Certainly the 'thinkers', aka academics, were very eager to expose Johnson at any cost, and they comprised half the team that worked on the project, but the Untied States - Vietnam Relations documents CONTAINED precisely ZERO sensitive military information as it pertained troops on the ground in 1971 and was NEVER deemed a threat to national security primarily for that reason. The study concluded in 1967. Hell, military officials on the ground at the time WERE NEVER CONSULTED.

    I'm fairly well up to speed on what happened in Vietnam all the way back to it's French occupation. The Pentagon papers and all that resulted are in NO WAY related to a PVT stealing sensitive military information and providing it to some half-wit self-righteous Aussie for publish on the WORLD WIDE WEB for ALL OUR ENEMIES TO SEE. The two are so far unrelated it is unreal to think that you would ever attempt to make the pairing.

    In essence, Johnson was embarrassed. That was the political motivation and it succeeded. YIPPIE FOR THE HIPPIES! Again, there was NO RISK to troops on the ground at the time of the publication, but that kind of information was not contained in those documents. The only real risk at the time was the governments refusal to actually WIN the war, but that's another story all together.

    If our military were not handcuffed by the politically correct crowd we'd long ago have left the middle east, glorious in victory and on to whatever event the world called us to. That, too is another story...

    Lies and statistics my friend. You send me your bank statements and I'll come up with something you've done wrong, even if I have to invent it, and when I am done I'll publish every bit of it right here on BlackandGold for the world to see. All those times you lied to chicks in college and misrepresented yourself in any way. It'll all be right here. Maybe there was some time in your past where you did a bad thing but were well intentioned. No matter - every misstep and untruth you ever stepped or spoke. We will publish your skeletons right here and leave it to the mob to judge you. That was the spirit of the Pentagon Papers and the precedent you speak of.

    The press still does not have unlimited freedom to publish whatever the hell it wants whenever the hell it wants. The first amendment is not a blank check. You may feel as though that is unfortunate, but even the big thinkers - the liberal 'academics', and the Supreme Court disagree.
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    Posted 12-10-2010 at 02:23 PM by saintfan saintfan is offline
  2. Old Comment
    xan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    We have precedent on divulging information about a war in progress. The Pentagon Papers helped expose the duplicitous actions and outright lies by our government in prosecuting the Viet Nam war. Both Daniel Ellsworth and the New York Times were accused and tried for treason. It wasn't even close. They were acquitted with extreme prejudice. The government even used that lame argument that the publication of the documentation of the lies jeopardized the troops. All analysis shows that fewer lives were lost as a result of publication because support for an unjust war disappeared, hastening the end of US involvement. Seems we haven't really learned much, either from history or about how we shouldn't believe everything we are told.

    There doesn't seem to be much difference between Wikileaks and the NYTimes. It is considered to be patriotic to hold our leaders accountable. It is considered patriotic and ethical to protect those who are willing to give that last measure of devotion to our country from wasting that devotion because of the lies and greed of despicable, amoral leaders. You cannot convince me that preventing this information from reaching the public is morally or legally justified.
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    Posted 12-09-2010 at 11:41 PM by xan xan is offline
  3. Old Comment
    saintfan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Oh, and this isn't about squashing a dissenting voice. In this country, as you know, you can dissent 'til the dry cows come home. Publishing military information WHILE OUR TROOPS ARE IN THE FIELD or even when they aren't is FAR more evil than the burning of any book.

    Perhaps those who thing what this little ****er is doing is okay would have enjoyed knowing he gave Hitler advanced warning about all the who's, what's, when's, where's, why's, and how's about the D Day Invasion? Perhaps there were too few lives lost that day for their righteousness?

    I'm sorry Xan, but this guy and what he's doing in no way equates to the points you are trying to make. We all have our own agenda, and it's clear that yours and mine separate pretty widely, but be real. There is principle and there is practice - meaning there's what we'd like to have in our own perceived Utopia and then there's what the real world provides.

    Let's not raise this punk to such a level where we credit him for being a 'dissenting voice'. Martin Luther King was a dissenting voice. Surely you can see the difference.
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    Posted 12-08-2010 at 08:29 PM by saintfan saintfan is offline
  4. Old Comment
    saintfan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xan View Comment
    I am going to argue that squashing dissenting voices is as detrimental to a healthy society as burning books and corporate sponsored advertising that poses as "news." It matters not one whit whether you like or dislike what wikileaks publishes. All that matters is that if there are facts that should be known that influence policy decisions that are being denied to the people who would be affected by those policies, this site should be protected, just like any 4th estate entity. Otherwise, we would do stupid things like invade a country based on a lie, promote tax cuts as healthy when they would be seriously detrimental to economic health, or misrepresent major cultural reforms because they would adversely affect a tiny minority who would gain economically from halting the reform.

    Or do we like the lies, exploitation and unfairness of asymmetrical information?
    Disagree entirely. The PVT that obtained sensitive military docs should be tried for and convicted of treason. In a perfect world you'd be right, but there ain't nothing perfect about this world. The strategies of the good are placed at risk. The LIVES of our brothers and sisters and sons and daughters are placed at greater risk.

    I get your angle, but it was not one man it was a group sign off on Iraq and Afghanistan. As to the overall health of the economy based on tax cuts (or not), economists do not agree. It isn't that simple. If it were there would be no debate about the sustainability of socialism, communism, or capitalism.

    That's the problem. This isn't about some great conspiracy to cover up OUR MILITARY SECRETS for the love of all that is holy. EVERYBODY has skeletons. Do you wan't YOURS broadcast for the world to see? I'd bet not.

    In grade school, where things are simple and the rules are clear, you taddle on somebody you get the **** kicked out of you. Simple justice. Such a shame we are unable to implement such justice once we're grown.
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    Posted 12-08-2010 at 08:00 PM by saintfan saintfan is offline
  5. Old Comment
    UK_WhoDat's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    It is gotten very silly now. I hope this means a massive clampdown on the manipulators of digital technology and maybe a clean up of phishing and spam
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    Posted 12-08-2010 at 07:47 PM by UK_WhoDat UK_WhoDat is offline
  6. Old Comment

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Frikin cyberwar?...man i just dont know..
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    Posted 12-08-2010 at 06:05 PM by strato strato is offline
  7. Old Comment
    xan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    I am going to argue that squashing dissenting voices is as detrimental to a healthy society as burning books and corporate sponsored advertising that poses as "news." It matters not one whit whether you like or dislike what wikileaks publishes. All that matters is that if there are facts that should be known that influence policy decisions that are being denied to the people who would be affected by those policies, this site should be protected, just like any 4th estate entity. Otherwise, we would do stupid things like invade a country based on a lie, promote tax cuts as healthy when they would be seriously detrimental to economic health, or misrepresent major cultural reforms because they would adversely affect a tiny minority who would gain economically from halting the reform.

    Or do we like the lies, exploitation and unfairness of asymmetrical information?
    permalink
    Posted 12-08-2010 at 09:53 AM by xan xan is offline
  8. Old Comment
    Halo's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClintSaints View Comment
    I simply do not understand why political stuff is being posted here. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I come to this site to ESCAPE politics! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
    Blogs are the only part of this website where we allow political discussions.

    We feel the blogs are physically separate from the forums and usually harder conversations do not carry back to the forum discussions.

    We ask all our members to read the Blogs selectively.
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    Posted 12-08-2010 at 09:45 AM by Halo Halo is offline
  9. Old Comment
    UK_WhoDat's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Good stuff iceshack149.

    And even if any of the information is true, we don't have a divine right to the information.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halo View Comment
    ..........
    It needs to be stopped because the next move is to lock down the internet, which is the first step toward hardcore censorship.
    It surprises me just how much it seems the world's governments are incapable of managing / restraining the internet. Oh I am not necessarily calling for restraint but some of the stuff is just downright dangerous (e.g. wikileaks), at best unhelpful, and corrupting.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ClintSaints View Comment
    I simply do not understand why political stuff is being posted here. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I come to this site to ESCAPE politics! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
    Hi CS. Who Dat!
    Sure the Saints are the one common denominator of BnG' members. But the website has all stuff Saints and more - Checkout the blog categorization..... that includes "News" and Politics. I don't go in that door if the thread title is unpalatable.
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    Posted 12-04-2010 at 02:16 PM by UK_WhoDat UK_WhoDat is offline
  10. Old Comment
    UK_WhoDat's Avatar

    Stock Market insight

    Good luck pherein.

    And yes I think you are right. With knowledge, research, measured investment/gamble and patience you may make a tidy sum.
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    Posted 12-04-2010 at 01:51 PM by UK_WhoDat UK_WhoDat is offline
  11. Old Comment

    My concern with Wikileaks

    I simply do not understand why political stuff is being posted here. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I come to this site to ESCAPE politics! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
    permalink
    Posted 12-04-2010 at 12:29 AM by ClintSaints ClintSaints is offline
  12. Old Comment

    Frustrated Obama Sends Nation Rambling 75,000-Word E-Mail

    Um, isn't this supposed to be a website about THE SAINTS???
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    Posted 12-04-2010 at 12:28 AM by ClintSaints ClintSaints is offline
  13. Old Comment
    saintfan's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    Couldn't agree more. I continue to be amazed at what people can manage to convince themselves of. How is this perceived by ANY one as a positive is quite frankly beyond me. This tool should swing from the highest tree.
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    Posted 12-03-2010 at 06:48 PM by saintfan saintfan is offline
  14. Old Comment
    Halo's Avatar

    My concern with Wikileaks

    WikiLeaks is a quagmire and is almost as bad as terrorist, or eventually maybe worse. It's a huge security risk and can get our soldiers, agents and officials killed.

    It needs to be stopped because the next move is to lock down the internet, which is the first step toward hardcore censorship.
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    Posted 12-02-2010 at 05:36 PM by Halo Halo is offline
  15. Old Comment

    Frustrated Obama Sends Nation Rambling 75,000-Word E-Mail

    Yeah. Dumb joke here, about an e-mail sent at 4:26 in the morning... I didn't realize until later that I had posted it at 4:50.
    permalink
    Posted 12-01-2010 at 12:37 PM by CashAndFlash CashAndFlash is offline
  16. Old Comment
    Halo's Avatar

    Frustrated Obama Sends Nation Rambling 75,000-Word E-Mail

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Belair57 View Comment
    anything from the onion is fake....
    I think that's the point, it's a joke. I don't think it was supposed to be serious.
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    Posted 12-01-2010 at 12:21 PM by Halo Halo is offline
  17. Old Comment
    Belair57's Avatar

    Frustrated Obama Sends Nation Rambling 75,000-Word E-Mail

    anything from the onion is fake....
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    Posted 12-01-2010 at 12:12 PM by Belair57 Belair57 is offline
  18. Old Comment

    Drew Brees named SI's Sportsman of the Year

    DREW DAT!!!! Great article...
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    Posted 11-30-2010 at 10:05 PM by dunndb dunndb is offline
  19. Old Comment

    Drew Brees named SI's Sportsman of the Year

    Very nice..great read..DREW!!!!
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    Posted 11-30-2010 at 04:10 PM by strato strato is offline
  20. Old Comment
    Halo's Avatar

    Week 12 NFC South Break Down

    PDF much better....
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    Posted 11-30-2010 at 12:11 AM by Halo Halo is offline

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