Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem

nola_swammi · 08-12-2018, 10:05 PM

If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-12-2018, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest.

It wouldn't have mattered, unfortunately. There is a sizable segment of the population who believes that any sign of disrespect (according to them) of the flag is disrespecting the country, no matter the reason.

What I found interesting in all this is two things. First is that Kaepernick was advised by veterans that taking a knee is a sign of showing respect for fallen brothers. The second is that almost to a person in all the interviews I've seen, veterans state that they served so that citizens could retain the right to disagree and to protest. So the folks that are in theory being the most "disrepected" by the action are the ones who actually understand it the best.

In the end, everyone has the right to do exactly what they are doing. Players can kneel (or not). NFL owners can choose to impose rules. Those who feel disrespected have the right to feel that way, and to express their opinions. Even Trump has the right to fan the flames if that's what he wants to do. Each and every group has the right of self expression. There's actually nothing more American than that.

The NFL really only has one way out of this. They have to recognize the rights of the players to protest. If they don't, the players will simply continue to do so, just as in this instance that prompted this thread. At the same time, the league will need to take significant steps to address the issues that the players are protesting about. It's all in the understanding that people protest when they feel powerless and unheard. In short, instead of trying to force people to stand for the anthem, create the conditions where they will want to stand for it.

But closing with my opening: Nothing other than complete conformity will satisfy some, regardless of the underlaying issues. The NFL has already made the mistake once of trying this path, and here we are again.

SFIAH

nola_swammi · 08-13-2018, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

It wouldn't have mattered, unfortunately. There is a sizable segment of the population who believes that any sign of disrespect (according to them) of the flag is disrespecting the country, no matter the reason.

What I found interesting in all this is two things. First is that Kaepernick was advised by veterans that taking a knee is a sign of showing respect for fallen brothers. The second is that almost to a person in all the interviews I've seen, veterans state that they served so that citizens could retain the right to disagree and to protest. So the folks that are in theory being the most "disrepected" by the action are the ones who actually understand it the best.

In the end, everyone has the right to do exactly what they are doing. Players can kneel (or not). NFL owners can choose to impose rules. Those who feel disrespected have the right to feel that way, and to express their opinions. Even Trump has the right to fan the flames if that's what he wants to do. Each and every group has the right of self expression. There's actually nothing more American than that.

The NFL really only has one way out of this. They have to recognize the rights of the players to protest. If they don't, the players will simply continue to do so, just as in this instance that prompted this thread. At the same time, the league will need to take significant steps to address the issues that the players are protesting about. It's all in the understanding that people protest when they feel powerless and unheard. In short, instead of trying to force people to stand for the anthem, create the conditions where they will want to stand for it.

But closing with my opening: Nothing other than complete conformity will satisfy some, regardless of the underlaying issues. The NFL has already made the mistake once of trying this path, and here we are again.

SFIAH

that was well said.

iceshack149 · 08-13-2018, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big.

Nonsense.
Ultimately, Kaepernick had 24 hours in a day and 168 hours in a week to accomplish something positive and chose 2.5 minutes during a time that many consider sacred to kneel. That was considered by many to be a vile act.
The pig socks fanned the flames.
CK urinated on people that paid his million dollar salary by showing disrespect to the flag, the anthem and those who chose to "serve and protect" our country.
Those that would try to convince me that this was not a stance against America are either clueless or full of crap.

jeanpierre · 08-13-2018, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest.

So when Colin Kaepernick who instigated this fight wore pig socks, that wasn't divisive? Put blame where it belongs on a mis-guided, cuck-holded Kaepernick...

For most folks, hi-jacking the National Anthem is a disgrace to their loved ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice so the rest of us could have a better life...

Not a perfect life, but a better life. President Trump didn't start the Middle East conflicts, but he was there in the early hours at Andrews AFB as they came home...

Have no doubt that experience moved him to take the position that he has - President Trump called these punks on their hypocrisy as they can't police themselves...

You don't see them wearing a color or badge for Domestic Violence - yet PFT gives regular reports of NFL players beating their women, sometimes their children...

All the President did was call out a bunch of spoiled millionaire players who had no thought or conscience for the caskets still coming home draped in coffins...

Before the primaries, I considered Trump pretty much an a**hole; but he's done more as President than the previous four a**holes put together...

And all against a coercive media and deep state who've spun race and religion to consolidate their power for years against people who don't have a clue...

If you want an honest life, seek out the truths of both sides of an argument, their credibility, their source, and the facts as they are - if you've the courage for the Truth...

Many missed Malcom X's warnings of a manipulative media & the liberal agenda; like religious radicals, these players have chosen selective parts ignoring his message...

Now Social Media censors only one side of the argument. News Media only reports one side of the argument. All for the sake of controlling the lazy, weak-minded...

This country was deeply divided before President Trump took the oath; he's just expressed the frustration many Americans have had with these kabal regimes...

shawnkytonk · 08-13-2018, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Nonsense.
Ultimately, Kaepernick had 24 hours in a day and 168 hours in a week to accomplish something positive and chose 2.5 minutes during a time that many consider sacred to kneel. That was considered by many to be a vile act.
The pig socks fanned the flames.
CK urinated on people that paid his million dollar salary by showing disrespect to the flag, the anthem and those who chose to "serve and protect" our country.
Those that would try to convince me that this was not a stance against America are either clueless or full of crap.

Good god at this nonsense. Tito bring this nut a tissue.

rezburna · 08-13-2018, 06:06 AM

“The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.”

Malcolm X

Point being, this bipartisan argument between White Liberals and Conservatives ain’t our business. Neither side means us any good and we should create our own, unique side that’s for us and by us. Should we trust the liberals? Of course not. Should we in turn, trust the conservatives? **** no. We’re not going to champion law enforcement because one demographic feels we should. We don’t have to honor veterans in the way anybody else feels is right. We all have veterans in our family. My father, grandfather, and Great-Grandfather are vets. We won’t get into the disrespect my grandfathers came home to since “respect” is something everyone says they’re worried about. This country was always divided, and it’s going to stay divided until it rips apart at the seams. I won’t push a kumbaya message for the sake of doing so. I don’t trust law enforcement because I know the history of it in this country. I don’t care about the National Anthem because it doesn’t represent me and was never intended to. I understand all sides and it’s completely fine to feel how you want to feel, regardless how outrageous it sounds, but it’s 2018...Conservatives are lying to us just as much as the Liberals. I won’t be used in the quarrels. We protect ourselves from any imminent threats by most of our tax money going to defense. If you’re worried about the military, protest for them to get paid more and come home to country that offers them better mental and physical health care than they do now.

saintfan · 08-13-2018, 07:25 AM

You understand YOUR side - it is the Black Panther mantra, pretty much word for word. I run in to it a lot out here in California.

But you do not understand ALL sides. Not even close my friend.

And Che Guevara was a magnanimous failure. I love conversations about the 60s.

rezburna · 08-13-2018, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by saintfan

You understand YOUR side - it is the Black Panther mantra, pretty much word for word. I run in to it a lot out here in California.

But you do not understand ALL sides. Not even close my friend.

And Che Guevara was a magnanimous failure. I love conversations about the 60s.

1. The Black Panthers were a reformist group. I’m not a reformist.

2. I’m not your friend.

3. Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what I do and don’t understand. You don’t know me.

saintfan · 08-13-2018, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

1. The Black Panthers were a reformist group. I’m not a reformist.

2. I’m not your friend.

3. Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what I do and don’t understand. You don’t know me.

I don't know you, but I know what you speak. I'm very familiar with it. You get what you give sir. You're following a playbook with which I am somewhat well-versed. I can spot it 10 miles away.

You simply do not understand any side other than yours. You only think you do. That is evident in your posts which always lead back to race. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

08-12-2018, 10:05 PM	#11
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,626	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest.

08-12-2018, 10:58 PM	#12
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by nola_swammi If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest. It wouldn't have mattered, unfortunately. There is a sizable segment of the population who believes that any sign of disrespect (according to them) of the flag is disrespecting the country, no matter the reason. What I found interesting in all this is two things. First is that Kaepernick was advised by veterans that taking a knee is a sign of showing respect for fallen brothers. The second is that almost to a person in all the interviews I've seen, veterans state that they served so that citizens could retain the right to disagree and to protest. So the folks that are in theory being the most "disrepected" by the action are the ones who actually understand it the best. In the end, everyone has the right to do exactly what they are doing. Players can kneel (or not). NFL owners can choose to impose rules. Those who feel disrespected have the right to feel that way, and to express their opinions. Even Trump has the right to fan the flames if that's what he wants to do. Each and every group has the right of self expression. There's actually nothing more American than that. The NFL really only has one way out of this. They have to recognize the rights of the players to protest. If they don't, the players will simply continue to do so, just as in this instance that prompted this thread. At the same time, the league will need to take significant steps to address the issues that the players are protesting about. It's all in the understanding that people protest when they feel powerless and unheard. In short, instead of trying to force people to stand for the anthem, create the conditions where they will want to stand for it. But closing with my opening: Nothing other than complete conformity will satisfy some, regardless of the underlaying issues. The NFL has already made the mistake once of trying this path, and here we are again. SFIAH nola_swammi, Crusader, OldMaid and 3 others like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-13-2018, 01:11 AM	#13
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,626	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL It wouldn't have mattered, unfortunately. There is a sizable segment of the population who believes that any sign of disrespect (according to them) of the flag is disrespecting the country, no matter the reason. What I found interesting in all this is two things. First is that Kaepernick was advised by veterans that taking a knee is a sign of showing respect for fallen brothers. The second is that almost to a person in all the interviews I've seen, veterans state that they served so that citizens could retain the right to disagree and to protest. So the folks that are in theory being the most "disrepected" by the action are the ones who actually understand it the best. In the end, everyone has the right to do exactly what they are doing. Players can kneel (or not). NFL owners can choose to impose rules. Those who feel disrespected have the right to feel that way, and to express their opinions. Even Trump has the right to fan the flames if that's what he wants to do. Each and every group has the right of self expression. There's actually nothing more American than that. The NFL really only has one way out of this. They have to recognize the rights of the players to protest. If they don't, the players will simply continue to do so, just as in this instance that prompted this thread. At the same time, the league will need to take significant steps to address the issues that the players are protesting about. It's all in the understanding that people protest when they feel powerless and unheard. In short, instead of trying to force people to stand for the anthem, create the conditions where they will want to stand for it. But closing with my opening: Nothing other than complete conformity will satisfy some, regardless of the underlaying issues. The NFL has already made the mistake once of trying this path, and here we are again. SFIAH that was well said. OldMaid likes this.

08-13-2018, 01:15 AM	#14
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,090 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by nola_swammi If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Nonsense. Ultimately, Kaepernick had 24 hours in a day and 168 hours in a week to accomplish something positive and chose 2.5 minutes during a time that many consider sacred to kneel. That was considered by many to be a vile act. The pig socks fanned the flames. CK urinated on people that paid his million dollar salary by showing disrespect to the flag, the anthem and those who chose to "serve and protect" our country. Those that would try to convince me that this was not a stance against America are either clueless or full of crap. saintfan, jeanpierre and WhoDatLucky like this.

08-13-2018, 01:38 AM	#15
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by nola_swammi If people stick with the issue of the protest instead of implying that this stance was against America, this issue wouldn't have blown up this big. Thank Donald Trump for his divisive message which cause more players to protest. So when Colin Kaepernick who instigated this fight wore pig socks, that wasn't divisive? Put blame where it belongs on a mis-guided, cuck-holded Kaepernick... For most folks, hi-jacking the National Anthem is a disgrace to their loved ones who gave the ultimate sacrifice so the rest of us could have a better life... Not a perfect life, but a better life. President Trump didn't start the Middle East conflicts, but he was there in the early hours at Andrews AFB as they came home... Have no doubt that experience moved him to take the position that he has - President Trump called these punks on their hypocrisy as they can't police themselves... You don't see them wearing a color or badge for Domestic Violence - yet PFT gives regular reports of NFL players beating their women, sometimes their children... All the President did was call out a bunch of spoiled millionaire players who had no thought or conscience for the caskets still coming home draped in coffins... Before the primaries, I considered Trump pretty much an ahole; but he's done more as President than the previous four aholes put together... And all against a coercive media and deep state who've spun race and religion to consolidate their power for years against people who don't have a clue... If you want an honest life, seek out the truths of both sides of an argument, their credibility, their source, and the facts as they are - if you've the courage for the Truth... Many missed Malcom X's warnings of a manipulative media & the liberal agenda; like religious radicals, these players have chosen selective parts ignoring his message... Now Social Media censors only one side of the argument. News Media only reports one side of the argument. All for the sake of controlling the lazy, weak-minded... This country was deeply divided before President Trump took the oath; he's just expressed the frustration many Americans have had with these kabal regimes... iceshack149, skymike and WhoDatLucky like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 08-13-2018 at 01:52 AM..

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08-13-2018, 03:33 AM	#16
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 736	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by iceshack149 Nonsense. Ultimately, Kaepernick had 24 hours in a day and 168 hours in a week to accomplish something positive and chose 2.5 minutes during a time that many consider sacred to kneel. That was considered by many to be a vile act. The pig socks fanned the flames. CK urinated on people that paid his million dollar salary by showing disrespect to the flag, the anthem and those who chose to "serve and protect" our country. Those that would try to convince me that this was not a stance against America are either clueless or full of crap. Good god at this nonsense. Tito bring this nut a tissue.

08-13-2018, 06:06 AM	#17
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,654	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem “The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.” Malcolm X Point being, this bipartisan argument between White Liberals and Conservatives ain’t our business. Neither side means us any good and we should create our own, unique side that’s for us and by us. Should we trust the liberals? Of course not. Should we in turn, trust the conservatives? **** no. We’re not going to champion law enforcement because one demographic feels we should. We don’t have to honor veterans in the way anybody else feels is right. We all have veterans in our family. My father, grandfather, and Great-Grandfather are vets. We won’t get into the disrespect my grandfathers came home to since “respect” is something everyone says they’re worried about. This country was always divided, and it’s going to stay divided until it rips apart at the seams. I won’t push a kumbaya message for the sake of doing so. I don’t trust law enforcement because I know the history of it in this country. I don’t care about the National Anthem because it doesn’t represent me and was never intended to. I understand all sides and it’s completely fine to feel how you want to feel, regardless how outrageous it sounds, but it’s 2018...Conservatives are lying to us just as much as the Liberals. I won’t be used in the quarrels. We protect ourselves from any imminent threats by most of our tax money going to defense. If you’re worried about the military, protest for them to get paid more and come home to country that offers them better mental and physical health care than they do now.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

08-13-2018, 07:25 AM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem You understand YOUR side - it is the Black Panther mantra, pretty much word for word. I run in to it a lot out here in California. But you do not understand ALL sides. Not even close my friend. And Che Guevara was a magnanimous failure. I love conversations about the 60s. iceshack149 and skymike like this.

08-13-2018, 07:27 AM	#19
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,654	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by saintfan You understand YOUR side - it is the Black Panther mantra, pretty much word for word. I run in to it a lot out here in California. But you do not understand ALL sides. Not even close my friend. And Che Guevara was a magnanimous failure. I love conversations about the 60s. 1. The Black Panthers were a reformist group. I’m not a reformist. 2. I’m not your friend. 3. Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what I do and don’t understand. You don’t know me.

08-13-2018, 07:44 AM	#20
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Leonard Fournette amoung 4 Jaguars who stayed in tunnel during anthem Originally Posted by rezburna 1. The Black Panthers were a reformist group. I’m not a reformist. 2. I’m not your friend. 3. Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what I do and don’t understand. You don’t know me. I don't know you, but I know what you speak. I'm very familiar with it. You get what you give sir. You're following a playbook with which I am somewhat well-versed. I can spot it 10 miles away. You simply do not understand any side other than yours. You only think you do. That is evident in your posts which always lead back to race. The only person you're fooling is yourself.