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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; How great it would be, if you found something useful to say. I'm gonna nail you most every time your attacks take a personal tone. No reason for it, really. We're all Saints fans with differing opinions. Hope you found ...

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Old 05-16-2006, 02:34 PM   #61
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How great it would be, if you found something useful to say.
I'm gonna nail you most every time your attacks take a personal tone. No reason for it, really. We're all Saints fans with differing opinions.

Hope you found that useful. Good day.




8)
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
And he wants to be a #1 reciever?????? He is what his is....an average to slightly above average #2 reciever.
Wait, where did you get info that he wanted to be a number one receiver? You reading his mind now or using you own not so "keen" observations skills?

As far as your list, LMAO!!! Donte is easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson. And Brandon Stokley firmly makes you a hater if you honestly believe he is better than Stallworth. Keyshawn was a number one his whole career. Wayne plays with Peyton freaking Manning and has Harrison on the other side. TJ has Chad Johnson on the other side and has Carson Palmer. Fitzgerald is clearly a number one receiver. Isaac Bruce was a number one his whole career, but Donte killed him stat wise last year. And Rod Smith is clearly a number one receiver. So what point did you prove by making a list with number one receivers, guys who play with QBs CLEARLY far superior to anything Donte has ever had, and guys who Donte is better than? Prob best not to get football info from Madden 2006.
Easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson....and WHY??? Because you said so??? Oh ok....it's the truth then. I could use some clarification though. What can you show me that even could suggest that Stallworth is "clearly better than these guys??

Look at the results buddy. All of them have amassed better stats than Stallworth. But a silly thing like RESULTS probably don't matter to you either. You MUST be saying that all of their success is attributed to their QB then. So lets see some of the QBs these guys have had throwing to them.

Sage Rosenfels
AJ Feely
Kerry Collins
Brian Griese
Chad Hutchinson
J.P. Losman
Kelly Holcomb
Rob Johnson
Rex Grossman
BILLY JOE HOBERT HAHAHA

Sorry but I'd take AB over these hacks any day. Moulds has had NO ONE since Jim Kelly at the beginning of his career, still put up great numbers, yet Stallworth is clearly better than him?? What a joke.

But yeah....AB has been holding him down all of this time. Some of these guys have had pure HACKS throwing them passes, yet they still managed to put up decent stats. Stokley was thrown in there for humor, but I guess you didnt think it was too funny. Wayne may have Peyton but he could come to THIS team and be a #1 reciever. Stallworth doesn't come close to comparing to Wayne. As for the others we can sub in Boldin for Fitzgerald then, Torry Holt for Issac Bruce, Javon Walker for Rod Smith and we still have players that are superior to Stallworth. You've made no points that would suggest Stallworth is "clearly better" than these players, just attempted to ridicule what i've pointed out to mask your complete lack of any evidence to support your claims whatsoever. Not your best work.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:38 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by TallySaint
How great it would be, if you found something useful to say.
I'm gonna nail you most every time your attacks take a personal tone. No reason for it, really. We're all Saints fans with differing opinions.

Hope you found that useful. Good day.




8)
Wait, so you quoted "previous arguments", and tried to make a joke, and now it's about "attacks taking a personal tone?" You're a fraud. Hope you found THAT useful.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:42 PM   #64
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cut that crap out or ill end it myself
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:49 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by GoldRush26
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
And he wants to be a #1 reciever?????? He is what his is....an average to slightly above average #2 reciever.
Wait, where did you get info that he wanted to be a number one receiver? You reading his mind now or using you own not so "keen" observations skills?

As far as your list, LMAO!!! Donte is easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson. And Brandon Stokley firmly makes you a hater if you honestly believe he is better than Stallworth. Keyshawn was a number one his whole career. Wayne plays with Peyton freaking Manning and has Harrison on the other side. TJ has Chad Johnson on the other side and has Carson Palmer. Fitzgerald is clearly a number one receiver. Isaac Bruce was a number one his whole career, but Donte killed him stat wise last year. And Rod Smith is clearly a number one receiver. So what point did you prove by making a list with number one receivers, guys who play with QBs CLEARLY far superior to anything Donte has ever had, and guys who Donte is better than? Prob best not to get football info from Madden 2006.
Easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson....and WHY??? Because you said so??? Oh ok....it's the truth then. I could use some clarification though. What can you show me that even could suggest that Stallworth is "clearly better than these guys??

Look at the results buddy. All of them have amassed better stats than Stallworth. But a silly thing like RESULTS probably don't matter to you either. You MUST be saying that all of their success is attributed to their QB then. So lets see some of the QBs these guys have had throwing to them.

Sage Rosenfels
AJ Feely
Kerry Collins
Brian Griese
Chad Hutchinson
J.P. Losman
Kelly Holcomb
Rex Grossman

Sorry but I'd take AB over these hacks any day. Moulds has had NO ONE since Jim Kelly at the beginning of his career, still put up great numbers, yet Stallworth is clearly better than him?? What a joke.

But yeah....AB has been holding him down all of this time. Some of these guys have had pure HACKS throwing them passes, yet they still managed to put up decent stats. Stokley was thrown in there for humor, but I guess you didnt think it was too funny. Wayne may have Peyton but he could come to THIS team and be a #1 reciever. Stallworth doesn't come close to comparing to Wayne. As for the others we can sub in Fitzgerald for Boldin then, Torry Holt for Issac Bruce, Javon Walker for Rod Smith and we still have players that are superior to Stallworth. You've made no points that would suggest Stallworth is "clearly better" than these players, just attempted to ridicule what i've pointed out to mask your complete lack of any evidence to support your claims whatsoever. Not your best work.
Again, you can't be serious. Putting aside the fact this team played 16 road games last year and was dismantled by a hurricane, I would take half those QBs over Aaron Brooks, but I am wondering where you got that fraudulent list of QBs. Are you talking about all time, or last year? I am talking about last year. Who did Rosenfels QB? Frerotte was the starter in Miami. Feely? Um, no again, Frerotte. I'd take him over AB. Collins? I'd take him over AB. Griese? He only played 5 games last year, his team was 4-1, and i'd take him every day of the week over AB. Hutchinson? Who was he QB for? Booker plays in Miami. Don't get confused. He only played 5 games in Chi, and Booker was already in Miami. Donte's RESULTS killed Moulds last year, in a hurricane ravaged season, so Losnamn's name is on there why? ABs passer rating was about as bad as his. Holcomb and Grossman? Take them over AB every day of the week. So what did you prove?

And wayne on this team with AB, would be Stallworth. And Stallworth in Indy with Peyton and those coaches, would be Wayne. See how easy that is, easy as saying Wayne would come here and be a number one. Had he played his whole career HERE though, he would be Donte and vice versa. Sub Boldin for Fitzgerald? Boldin is a number one receiver. Went to the pro bowl as a rookie. Oops. Holt it is a number one receiver. I thought your point was to compare Donte to number two receivers. Did you change that? Don't confuse yourself. Javon Walker is also a number one receiver. So are you comparing Donte to twos or ones, since your first point was he was an average two. You have no proff of that, so you wanna say he is an average two compared to ones? LMAO!!! Ok. Slick, but not effective. Try again?
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:16 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Originally Posted by GoldRush26
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
And he wants to be a #1 reciever?????? He is what his is....an average to slightly above average #2 reciever.
Wait, where did you get info that he wanted to be a number one receiver? You reading his mind now or using you own not so "keen" observations skills?

As far as your list, LMAO!!! Donte is easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson. And Brandon Stokley firmly makes you a hater if you honestly believe he is better than Stallworth. Keyshawn was a number one his whole career. Wayne plays with Peyton freaking Manning and has Harrison on the other side. TJ has Chad Johnson on the other side and has Carson Palmer. Fitzgerald is clearly a number one receiver. Isaac Bruce was a number one his whole career, but Donte killed him stat wise last year. And Rod Smith is clearly a number one receiver. So what point did you prove by making a list with number one receivers, guys who play with QBs CLEARLY far superior to anything Donte has ever had, and guys who Donte is better than? Prob best not to get football info from Madden 2006.
Easily better than Glenn, Porter, Moulds, Toomer, Galloway, Booker, Burleson....and WHY??? Because you said so??? Oh ok....it's the truth then. I could use some clarification though. What can you show me that even could suggest that Stallworth is "clearly better than these guys??

Look at the results buddy. All of them have amassed better stats than Stallworth. But a silly thing like RESULTS probably don't matter to you either. You MUST be saying that all of their success is attributed to their QB then. So lets see some of the QBs these guys have had throwing to them.

Sage Rosenfels
AJ Feely
Kerry Collins
Brian Griese
Chad Hutchinson
J.P. Losman
Kelly Holcomb
Rex Grossman

Sorry but I'd take AB over these hacks any day. Moulds has had NO ONE since Jim Kelly at the beginning of his career, still put up great numbers, yet Stallworth is clearly better than him?? What a joke.

But yeah....AB has been holding him down all of this time. Some of these guys have had pure HACKS throwing them passes, yet they still managed to put up decent stats. Stokley was thrown in there for humor, but I guess you didnt think it was too funny. Wayne may have Peyton but he could come to THIS team and be a #1 reciever. Stallworth doesn't come close to comparing to Wayne. As for the others we can sub in Fitzgerald for Boldin then, Torry Holt for Issac Bruce, Javon Walker for Rod Smith and we still have players that are superior to Stallworth. You've made no points that would suggest Stallworth is "clearly better" than these players, just attempted to ridicule what i've pointed out to mask your complete lack of any evidence to support your claims whatsoever. Not your best work.
Again, you can't be serious. Putting aside the fact this team played 16 road games last year and was dismantled by a hurricane, I would take half those QBs over Aaron Brooks, but I am wondering where you got that fraudulent list of QBs. Are you talking about all time, or last year? I am talking about last year. Who did Rosenfels QB? Frerotte was the starter in Miami. Feely? Um, no again, Frerotte. I'd take him over AB. Collins? I'd take him over AB. Griese? He only played 5 games last year, his team was 4-1, and i'd take him every day of the week over AB. Hutchinson? Who was he QB for? Booker plays in Miami. Don't get confused. He only played 5 games in Chi, and Booker was already in Miami. Donte's RESULTS killed Moulds last year, in a hurricane ravaged season, so Losnamn's name is on there why? ABs passer rating was about as bad as his. Holcomb and Grossman? Take them over AB every day of the week. So what did you prove?

And wayne on this team with AB, would be Stallworth. And Stallworth in Indy with Peyton and those coaches, would be Wayne. See how easy that is, easy as saying Wayne would come here and be a number one. Had he played his whole career HERE though, he would be Donte and vice versa. Sub Boldin for Fitzgerald? Boldin is a number one receiver. Went to the pro bowl as a rookie. Oops. Holt it is a number one receiver. I thought your point was to compare Donte to number two receivers. Did you change that? Don't confuse yourself. Javon Walker is also a number one receiver. So are you comparing Donte to twos or ones, since your first point was he was an average two. You have no proff of that, so you wanna say he is an average two compared to ones? LMAO!!! Ok. Slick, but not effective. Try again?
You can play those games if you want...but if you think that Stallworth is comparable in talent to Reggie Wayne then there's no point in going foward. I can't respect any opinion that would come from someone who would claim this. I refuse to believe that you actually think this though. Wayne plays with Peyton Manning. So does Marvin Harrison. So did Brad Pyatt. Point?

Apparently I'm talking about all time with respect to my QB listing, which enforces my point even more. Who cares about one season??? HOWEVER if you wanna play the one season card now, Stallworth was ranked 24th out of all NFL recievers in yardage and 26th in receiving TDs, and that was last year getting the lion's share of the throws his way. What about those numbers is special. Why is he better than any of the WRs I listed??? It's sweet that you believe in him, but he has to put up numbers in the NFL, not excuses like you're making for him.

Other WRs have had a much more tumultous QB situation than Stallworth, yet put up stats better than his. QB starters on other teams, such as Miami, Chicago, and Buffalo have been interchangable pretty much since the turn of the century. I listed those QBs because they are pertinent to the arguement I'm making.

A team has a number 1 reciever, and a number 2 reciever. That how it is. You can't say that a team has two #1s just because you feel like it. Out of Fitzgerald and Boldin, one of them is a #2. Out of Javon Walker and Rod Smith, one of them is a #2. Been this way ever since there was such a thing as a depth chart. Seems like you're the only one confused here. All teams have a #1 and a #2. Just because Stallworth can't compare to any of those i mentioned(oh except for Issac Bruce and Eric Moulds, who Stallworth is clearly better than....lol that is laughable)you're totally ignoring the concept of a depth chart. Mmmmm ok.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:21 PM   #67
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I think that the system that Stallworth has played in and the limitations implicit because of the personnel has played a significant role in his development. Having a "one read" offense that played against 8 in the box defenses would stunt anyone's development. Plus, Deuce's injury made the run offense less effective and put more pressure on that one read system. It didn't appear that the system had "hot reads" or a construct of check-offs to exploit defenses. A #2 receiver is going to be the beneficiary of most of those offensive features. The fact that Stallworth made any progress at all in 2005 says more about his talent and determination. Payton's new offensive scheme, with a smart and effective quarterback and a fearsome running attack will make Stallworth's defensive secondary stretching abilities more attractive and effective as a #2. Can anyone name another starting #2 who's got 4.29 speed and can catch the ball better than his #1 counterpart?

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Old 05-16-2006, 03:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by xan
I think that the system that Stallworth has played in and the limitations implicit because of the personnel has played a significant role in his development. Having a "one read" offense that played against 8 in the box defenses would stunt anyone's development. Plus, Deuce's injury made the run offense less effective and put more pressure on that one read system. It didn't appear that the system had "hot reads" or a construct of check-offs to exploit defenses. A #2 receiver is going to be the beneficiary of most of those offensive features. The fact that Stallworth made any progress at all in 2005 says more about his talent and determination. Payton's new offensive scheme, with a smart and effective quarterback and a fearsome running attack will make Stallworth's defensive secondary stretching abilities more attractive and effective as a #2. Can anyone name another starting #2 who's got 4.29 speed and can catch the ball better than his #1 counterpart?
Fair enough, although what makes you think he catches the ball better than Horn?

Look I'm not saying Stallworth is not a legitimate NFL talent. He's average to above average. However, are we forgetting that he IS on the trading block?????? This is fact. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks he's not a good fit for the team. And I don't get the love affair with him. His world class speed is his greatest asset, and that's enough to keep him employed. He doesn't make spectacular catches. He doesn't outjump people. He doesn't go across the middle. Nothing remarkable. His speed is not replaceable, but if anyone thinks that Amani Toomer or Joey Galloway couldn't come in and do what he's doing....come on.
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Old 05-16-2006, 04:03 PM   #69
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Can anyone name another starting #2 who's got 4.29 speed and can catch the ball better than his #1 counterpart?
Terry Glenn did a great job last year with Keyshawn. Of course Keyshawn may have flipped to the 2 spot mid season. I don't know if Glenn is as fast as Stallworth, but he can scoot. Besides his losing focus right at the catch and dropping balls (which I think can be improved and will be if Payton is who we think he is) my biggest problem with Stallworth is not coming back to the ball and standing there like a statue waiting for the ball to make it to him (which is also a fixable problem).

I do think there are teams that would make Stallworth #2 and there are teams that would make him #3. Everyone made good points about other players' situations and results, but Stallworth is a good player and he helps us win. Hopefully he will get the same fire in his belly that Steve Smith has because he has the talent for it. Jerry Stackhouse never became the 2nd Jordan so it may not happen. We should have kept Hakim too, but we can't have verything.
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Old 05-16-2006, 06:35 PM   #70
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Where do I even begin?

You can play those games if you want...but if you think that Stallworth is comparable in talent to Reggie Wayne then there's no point in going foward. I can't respect any opinion that would come from someone who would claim this. I refuse to believe that you actually think this though. Wayne plays with Peyton Manning. So does Marvin Harrison. So did Brad Pyatt. Point?
Comparable in talent? Um yeah. Who would you take to bring a player along, Manning and Dungy or Brooks and Haslett? Get real. You said the dude ain;t good as Stokley, got called on it and wanna talk about "repescting someone's opinion?" Priceless. You don't know if you wanna compare him to twos or ones. Get real.

Apparently I'm talking about all time with respect to my QB listing, which enforces my point even more. Who cares about one season??? HOWEVER if you wanna play the one season card now, Stallworth was ranked 24th out of all NFL recievers in yardage and 26th in receiving TDs, and that was last year getting the lion's share of the throws his way. What about those numbers is special. Why is he better than any of the WRs I listed??? It's sweet that you believe in him, but he has to put up numbers in the NFL, not excuses like you're making for him.
Wanna take a guess as to a possible negative incident that happened for the Saints last season? Why don't you google it. The fact that Stallworth got BETTER under those conditions is testament enough to the talent the dude had. But please, look up "biggest natural disaster in US history" and see if that gives you a small clue as to the conditions the team had to play under last year. And Stallworth was STILL better than the majority of those WRs you listed.

Other WRs have had a much more tumultous QB situation than Stallworth, yet put up stats better than his. QB starters on other teams, such as Miami, Chicago, and Buffalo have been interchangable pretty much since the turn of the century. I listed those QBs because they are pertinent to the arguement I'm making.

What kinda argument is this? ZERO proof. Let me try" Other wide receivers have put up far worse stats than Stallworth with much better QBs than he has ever played with. Man, that was easy. IS that all there is to making up whatever I want? Nice.

A team has a number 1 reciever, and a number 2 reciever. That how it is. You can't say that a team has two #1s just because you feel like it. Out of Fitzgerald and Boldin, one of them is a #2. Out of Javon Walker and Rod Smith, one of them is a #2. Been this way ever since there was such a thing as a depth chart. Seems like you're the only one confused here. All teams have a #1 and a #2. Just because Stallworth can't compare to any of those i mentioned(oh except for Issac Bruce and Eric Moulds, who Stallworth is clearly better than....lol that is laughable)you're totally ignoring the concept of a depth chart. Mmmmm ok.
You're kidding right? Confused again? Were we talking about WR talent? Fitzgerald AND Boldin have #1 talent. Rod Smith is a number one receiver, but because they get Walker, another number one receiver, one of them becomes a #2? Do they have a #1 talent shrinking machine to make one of them a #2? Or do they just have two #1 receivers? Yikes.
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