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Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Great article on TheAdvocate by Nick Underhill today. Nick explains that in times of urgency in game situations, the Saints defense plays for the turnover rather than playing solid fundmental football - ie. tackling, better angles, etc. It's a common ...

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Old 10-03-2014, 10:46 AM   #1
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Great article on TheAdvocate by Nick Underhill today. Nick explains that in times of urgency in game situations, the Saints defense plays for the turnover rather than playing solid fundmental football - ie. tackling, better angles, etc. It's a common flaw we saw with Gregg Williams defense in his last two seasons.


With 2:34 remaining in Sunday’s 38-17 loss to the Dallas Cowboys...Saints quarterback Drew Brees had just thrown an interception that led to a Dallas touchdown. The New Orleans defense watched as the offense went three-and-out on the next series.

Something had to give. The defense needed to get the ball back for the offense, but instead of being patient and displaying solid fundamentals, it appeared everyone collectively decided that a turnover was the only acceptable result. So, when the Cowboys handed off to DeMarco Murray on their next snap, everyone was thinking the same thing: cause a fumble.

Linebackers Ramon Humber and Curtis Lofton and safety Rafael Bush got their hands on Murray just shy of the first-down marker and immediately began swatting at the ball instead of making the easy tackle. Murray managed to slip free of all three men and picked up 22 yards on what initially looked like a 7-yard gain.

The defense was pressing.
READ THE FULL ARTICLE AND ANALYSIS AT THEADVOCATE.COM

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Old 10-03-2014, 10:57 AM   #2
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

Shoving your foot up his butt may work better.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:10 AM   #3
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

This article linked above is exactly on target. Our defense plays some shoddy "feetball" in situations where all we need is a simple stop. its been consistant like that all season. stupid and uneccesarry strips instead of good tackling technique is their style this season. Unfortunately we saw flashes of this from our defense last season too (Rams game, Seahawks regular season game, etc.)
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:57 PM   #4
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

This is Sean Payton's fault.

If you recall he wanted more turnovers, and this is always what happens to defenses that focus on turnovers before fundamentals.

This is what happens when you have an offensive coach giving the defense direction... Payton, shut up and let Ryan do his job!

Edit: Payton doesn't get it still. Look at the quote bellow:
“I don’t think the starting position has been as challenging as just the lack of possessions,” Payton said. “Going into last week’s game, from an efficiency standpoint, with the possessions, we were scoring. When you’re looking at the scoring efficiency, but the lack of opportunities is something that when we get to talking about a complementary game trying to have more possessions and what contributes to that, a turnover obviously does.”

The last sentence is why this defense sucks. Payton doesn't seem to understand a 3 and out is effectively a turnover...
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:36 PM   #5
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

It's going to be like taking baby steps.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:00 PM   #6
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
This is Sean Payton's fault.

If you recall he wanted more turnovers, and this is always what happens to defenses that focus on turnovers before fundamentals.

This is what happens when you have an offensive coach giving the defense direction... Payton, shut up and let Ryan do his job!

Edit: Payton doesn't get it still. Look at the quote bellow:
“I don’t think the starting position has been as challenging as just the lack of possessions,” Payton said. “Going into last week’s game, from an efficiency standpoint, with the possessions, we were scoring. When you’re looking at the scoring efficiency, but the lack of opportunities is something that when we get to talking about a complementary game trying to have more possessions and what contributes to that, a turnover obviously does.”

The last sentence is why this defense sucks. Payton doesn't seem to understand a 3 and out is effectively a turnover...
I forgot who 1st brought it up (I think either Mitch or Blackangold), but I believe there's some truth to it. We were so obsessed with getting more turnovers that we lost focus on sound fundamentals. Its like we're trying too hard to force turnovers when all we really need to do is play sound smash mouth defense and the turnovers will come.

Jenkins and Harper both had hands of stone so we were at an interception disadvantage from the start. But now with Byrd and Vaccaro/Bush the picks should increase naturally without having to force or fabricate them.

I'm positive that if we focus on sound fundamentals the turnovers will come. We need to quit obsessing about them.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:12 PM   #7
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
This is Sean Payton's fault.

If you recall he wanted more turnovers, and this is always what happens to defenses that focus on turnovers before fundamentals.

This is what happens when you have an offensive coach giving the defense direction... Payton, shut up and let Ryan do his job!

Edit: Payton doesn't get it still. Look at the quote bellow:
“I don’t think the starting position has been as challenging as just the lack of possessions,” Payton said. “Going into last week’s game, from an efficiency standpoint, with the possessions, we were scoring. When you’re looking at the scoring efficiency, but the lack of opportunities is something that when we get to talking about a complementary game trying to have more possessions and what contributes to that, a turnover obviously does.”

The last sentence is why this defense sucks. Payton doesn't seem to understand a 3 and out is effectively a turnover...
Yes. It all started in training camp. They changed a lot of things in order to "create more turnovers". Those changes unfortunately made players soft and confused.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:19 PM   #8
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I forgot who 1st brought it up (I think either Mitch or Blackangold), but I believe there's some truth to it. We were so obsessed with getting more turnovers that we lost focus on sound fundamentals. Its like we're trying too hard to force turnovers when all we really need to do is play sound smash mouth defense and the turnovers will come.

Jenkins and Harper both had hands of stone so we were at an interception disadvantage from the start. But now with Byrd and Vaccaro/Bush the picks should increase naturally without having to force or fabricate them.

I'm positive that if we focus on sound fundamentals the turnovers will come. We need to quit obsessing about them.
Someone needs to write a letter to Sean Payton. Maybe then he'll keep his nose out and let Ryan coach the defense.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:28 PM   #9
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

One more thing. Watch Galette and Jordan and the way they are trying to sack QB. (preseason has more sample size)
They are more concerned to attack the football than to hit a QB and it is so slow and ineffective, which gives QB a time to get out of the trouble. Just knock the s*** out of him!
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:48 PM   #10
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Re: Saints Defense Lacks Patience and Fundamentals In Crunch Situations

Originally Posted by teddybarexxx View Post
hey dont forget the 3 and outs on offense. hey what's the point of giving you opportunities when all you gonna do is go 3 and out? start producing some drives, picking up some first downs, cut your offensive turnovers down and score. its just as much of the offense fault as the defense.
This says otherwise:

The Saints have the best third-down efficiency in the NFL (57.1 percent) and the best completion percentage in the NFL (71.4 percent). Their red-zone efficiency is way up (from 43.8 percent to 68.8 percent).
New Orleans Saints offense has been better than last year - ESPN

Combine all of those factors and the Saints’ offense is ranked by ESPN Stats and Info as the second-most efficient in the NFL this season, with 46.33 expected points added. Last year through four games, the Saints’ EPA was 27.07.
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