Saints - Scared to take a shot?

JKool · 03-03-2005, 12:26 PM

Womack, Womack, Womack... come on boys, chant it with me!

GoldenTomb · 03-03-2005, 12:30 PM

Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line.

And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon).

People will say that the Saints would be taking on too much risk by signing a big name, big money type, but you could argue that all of those three players mentioned above were considered risks for one reason or another.

The point remains the same...you can\'t expect to reap big returns without taking some calculated risks. Perhaps the Saints are working up a big one with a Howard trade. History shows us that they aren\'t, but we shall see.

GumboBC · 03-03-2005, 12:37 PM

Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line.

Yep, I agree, it\'s money more times than not. But, most teams are going to offer basically as much money as the Saints. Then the question becomes who do the prefer to play for.

And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon).

All of those moves by those 2 teams happend in ONE year. And how much did it help them?

Owens was hurt and Philly made it to the super bowl after the Eagles had been to 3 NFC championships.

Dillion defenately helped the Pats running game, but it also added to their cap number and they are having to cut some \"key\" players this offseason. And let\'s not forget, the Pats won 2 superbowls without Dillion.

I think if the Saints are going to sign some big name player, they\'re going to have to break the bank to do it. Plus, I\'m sure other teams are just as willing to break the bank on some of those same players.

saintswhodi · 03-03-2005, 12:42 PM

So basically stand pat on the basis of what may or may not happen? BRILLIANT!!!!!!

GT, I was gonna list those exact same people for NE and Philly. Signing TO got Philly the best record in the NFC, whether he was hurt during the playoffs or not. I think signing Rod Coleman helped the Falcs. Champ Bailey was traded for Portis, so Denver gained but they also lost. NE got Dillon cause they knew they weren\'t gonna get there this year without a running game, and it was just enough. So basically what I am understanding is, it is better not to spend a doller early, see what\'s left, target the lower tier of what is left, and hope for the best. BRILLIANT!!!!

GumboBC · 03-03-2005, 12:49 PM

So basically stand pat on the basis of what may or may not happen? BRILLIANT!!!!!!

GT, I was gonna list those exact same people for NE and Philly. Signing TO got Philly the best record in the NFC, whether he was hurt during the playoffs or not. I think signing Rod Coleman helped the Falcs. Champ Bailey was traded for Portis, so Denver gained but they also lost. NE got Dillon cause they knew they weren\'t gonna get there this year without a running game, and it was just enough. So basically what I am understanding is, it is better not to spend a doller early, see what\'s left, target the lower tier of what is left, and hope for the best. BRILLIANT!!!!

Who said anything about standing pat? Not me.

What I said is that we shouldn\'t overpay and hurt this team. Do you disagree with that statement? Or do you think that doesn\'t happen in the NFL.

The other point I was trying to make is that the players must be willing to come here.

Terrell Owens went to Philly becasue he knew they were close to winning a super bowl. He turned down Baltimore because he didn\'t think they had a chance.

Corey Dillion chose to go to the Pats because he wanted to win a super bowl.

The rest of these big name free-agents basically went to the highest bidder. Or if the money was close they went to the team they felt was best for their situation.

If you were a free-agent would you go to NOLA because of the great food and the great fans? Or because they were willing to pay you the most money? And if the Falcons offered you just as much money, would you still go to the Saints?

Wake up, man...lol

saintswhodi · 03-03-2005, 12:54 PM

Wake up to what? Reality? Here is a reality check for you, We have done nothing in FA since Mueller left. NOTHING. Is that awake enough for you? We have several GLARING holes that serviceable guys can fill, like Kool\'s suggestion for Womack. I love it. Where is he? How is getting him breaking the bank? Find an argument someone actually said, and argue against that. I never said they should sign one big player, I SAID THEY SHOULD SIGN SOMEONE AT A POSITION OF NEED. Get it now. We need a T, Womack is available, shouldn\'t be expensive, WHERE IS HE? But you are all excited about Mayberry, yet nowhere on here did I see you list guard as a major need, ever, or anyone else. So maybe you should WAKE UP and stop telling people how they can feel about an inept team once again showing how clueless they are in free agency.

GoldenTomb · 03-03-2005, 12:57 PM

Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line.

Yep, I agree, it\'s money more times than not. But, most teams are going to offer basically as much money as the Saints. Then the question becomes who do the prefer to play for.

And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon).

All of those moves by those 2 teams happend in ONE year. And how much did it help them?

Owens was hurt and Philly made it to the super bowl after the Eagles had been to 3 NFC championships.

Dillion defenately helped the Pats running game, but it also added to their cap number and they are having to cut some \"key\" players this offseason. And let\'s not forget, the Pats won 2 superbowls without Dillion.

I think if the Saints are going to sign some big name player, they\'re going to have to break the bank to do it. Plus, I\'m sure other teams are just as willing to break the bank on some of those same players.

I would say that it definitely helped those two teams. New England and Philly both nearly ran the table this year. They were MUCH better teams than the year before, but since their margin for improvement in wins and losses was so low, it seems like they didn\'t improve much. However, they were better than their records indicate. All you had to do was look at the games to see that. Not only that...signing a big name has a PSYCHOLOGICAL effect on a team, the fans and the entire community that can\'t be measured on paper.

Yeah sure NE is having to re-structure and what not, but they just won the Super Bowl. There is always fallout from winning a Super Bowl.

Basically successful teams seem to either build through the draft or build through free agency, or both. People are saying on one hand we shouldn\'t spend too much on free agents, but on the other hand we shouldn\'t take much of a risk in the draft either. Do you see the problem here. You have to take a risk SOMEWHERE.

GumboBC · 03-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Again, who is satisfied with inept? Not me. I want every avaliable guy who can help this team to be signed TODAY!!

Are we clear on that? Just as soon as we are, we can discuss things much better without me having to post that everytime..

I\'m not defending the Saints for not making any moves in the past and not helpiing this team get over the hump.

I\'m just telling you that it\'s not as simple as oferring X-amount of dollars and it\'s a done deal. Other teams are offering X-amount of dollars too.

Do you agree with that or what?

You want Womak? Me too. How much does he want? What are other teams offering hiim? Is he willing to come to NOLA?

If you were GM, what would you offer him to make him come here?

LKelley67 · 03-03-2005, 01:02 PM

as i have stated, i too believe in team building within the confines of the cap as a general rule. i think it is undeniable that there is a time push harder for now over build for the future. sometimes overpaying is a necessary evil to get over the hump. i believe the saints are at such juncture.

certainly there have been more losing free agent moves than winners. it goes with the risk turf.

but good and wise signings, even when overpaying cannot be ignored also. i will also contend a couple of the examples pointed out... champ bailey was a trade for portis not a free agent signing. they were getting nowhere with one formula so they tried another. i give them credit for not staying put when mediocre. philly and new england not free agent players?!? 8yr/$66million w/$16mil signing bonus for jevon kearse and a 7yr/$48million w/$10mil signing bonus for terrell owens rate as better than moderate free agent aggressiveness imo. pats had a weak link. what did they do? corey dillon is inked for 3.9mil. #4 on their team for cap hit? rosevelt colvin, 3.9mil free agent signing. they bolster my point more. build, build, then when the time comes- go for it! the saints went into the season $11mil UNDER the cap last season. new orleans may not be the ideal destination as a place for some but i cannot imagine green bay being a more liked city. plenty enough players come from louisiana and the surrounding region. why do players go to the frozen tundra? winning. winning breeds winning. the eagles got trotter for under $1mil last year. there is no way you can convince me he would have turned down $2-3 million from n.o. would that have been overpaying? possibly. might he have made a difference in saints run defense? you know that. rod coleman signed by atlanta last spring, difference maker? antoine winfield, minnesota? the big name high impact players go quick. we haven\'t heard a wimper of the saints seriously entertaining any. in fact, the opposite from loomis. the modus operandi has been established. even money here sez n.o. will be one of the top 5 teams under the cap once the season starts.
there is more than meets the eye but much is outrightly plain to see as well.

GoldenTomb · 03-03-2005, 01:09 PM

Again, who is satisfied with inept? Not me. I want every avaliable guy who can help this team to be signed TODAY!!

Are we clear on that? Just as soon as we are, we can discuss things much better without me having to post that everytime..

I\'m not defending the Saints for not making any moves in the past and not helpiing this team get over the hump.

I\'m just telling you that it\'s not as simple as oferring X-amount of dollars and it\'s a done deal. Other teams are offering X-amount of dollars too.

Do you agree with that or what?

You want Womak? Me too. How much does he want? What are other teams offering hiim? Is he willing to come to NOLA?

If you were GM, what would you offer him to make him come here?

I don\'t think anyone on this board is naive enough to think that it\'s ALL about dollars and cents. What I think we would settle for is a statement from Loomis saying that we tried valiantly to get Hartwell or Bell into a Saints uniform but he opted for greener pastures. I would have no complaints then.

We don\'t even get the effort. If we did I\'m sure we would hear about it. That is why people think that the regime is satisfied with mediocrity.

03-03-2005, 12:26 PM	#21
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Womack, Womack, Womack... come on boys, chant it with me!

03-03-2005, 12:30 PM	#22
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line. And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon). People will say that the Saints would be taking on too much risk by signing a big name, big money type, but you could argue that all of those three players mentioned above were considered risks for one reason or another. The point remains the same...you can\'t expect to reap big returns without taking some calculated risks. Perhaps the Saints are working up a big one with a Howard trade. History shows us that they aren\'t, but we shall see.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-03-2005, 12:37 PM	#23
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line. Yep, I agree, it\'s money more times than not. But, most teams are going to offer basically as much money as the Saints. Then the question becomes who do the prefer to play for. And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon). All of those moves by those 2 teams happend in ONE year. And how much did it help them? Owens was hurt and Philly made it to the super bowl after the Eagles had been to 3 NFC championships. Dillion defenately helped the Pats running game, but it also added to their cap number and they are having to cut some \"key\" players this offseason. And let\'s not forget, the Pats won 2 superbowls without Dillion. I think if the Saints are going to sign some big name player, they\'re going to have to break the bank to do it. Plus, I\'m sure other teams are just as willing to break the bank on some of those same players.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-03-2005, 12:42 PM	#24
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Saints - Scared to take a shot? So basically stand pat on the basis of what may or may not happen? BRILLIANT!!!!!! GT, I was gonna list those exact same people for NE and Philly. Signing TO got Philly the best record in the NFC, whether he was hurt during the playoffs or not. I think signing Rod Coleman helped the Falcs. Champ Bailey was traded for Portis, so Denver gained but they also lost. NE got Dillon cause they knew they weren\'t gonna get there this year without a running game, and it was just enough. So basically what I am understanding is, it is better not to spend a doller early, see what\'s left, target the lower tier of what is left, and hope for the best. BRILLIANT!!!!

03-03-2005, 12:49 PM	#25
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints - Scared to take a shot? So basically stand pat on the basis of what may or may not happen? BRILLIANT!!!!!! GT, I was gonna list those exact same people for NE and Philly. Signing TO got Philly the best record in the NFC, whether he was hurt during the playoffs or not. I think signing Rod Coleman helped the Falcs. Champ Bailey was traded for Portis, so Denver gained but they also lost. NE got Dillon cause they knew they weren\'t gonna get there this year without a running game, and it was just enough. So basically what I am understanding is, it is better not to spend a doller early, see what\'s left, target the lower tier of what is left, and hope for the best. BRILLIANT!!!! Who said anything about standing pat? Not me. What I said is that we shouldn\'t overpay and hurt this team. Do you disagree with that statement? Or do you think that doesn\'t happen in the NFL. The other point I was trying to make is that the players must be willing to come here. Terrell Owens went to Philly becasue he knew they were close to winning a super bowl. He turned down Baltimore because he didn\'t think they had a chance. Corey Dillion chose to go to the Pats because he wanted to win a super bowl. The rest of these big name free-agents basically went to the highest bidder. Or if the money was close they went to the team they felt was best for their situation. If you were a free-agent would you go to NOLA because of the great food and the great fans? Or because they were willing to pay you the most money? And if the Falcons offered you just as much money, would you still go to the Saints? Wake up, man...lol
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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03-03-2005, 12:54 PM	#26
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Wake up to what? Reality? Here is a reality check for you, We have done nothing in FA since Mueller left. NOTHING. Is that awake enough for you? We have several GLARING holes that serviceable guys can fill, like Kool\'s suggestion for Womack. I love it. Where is he? How is getting him breaking the bank? Find an argument someone actually said, and argue against that. I never said they should sign one big player, I SAID THEY SHOULD SIGN SOMEONE AT A POSITION OF NEED. Get it now. We need a T, Womack is available, shouldn\'t be expensive, WHERE IS HE? But you are all excited about Mayberry, yet nowhere on here did I see you list guard as a major need, ever, or anyone else. So maybe you should WAKE UP and stop telling people how they can feel about an inept team once again showing how clueless they are in free agency.

03-03-2005, 12:57 PM	#27
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Yeah there is more than meets the eye but more often than not MONEY is the bottom line. Yep, I agree, it\'s money more times than not. But, most teams are going to offer basically as much money as the Saints. Then the question becomes who do the prefer to play for. And those teams you mentioned(NE and Philly) do make headlining moves ONCE in a while(i.e. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Corey Dillon). All of those moves by those 2 teams happend in ONE year. And how much did it help them? Owens was hurt and Philly made it to the super bowl after the Eagles had been to 3 NFC championships. Dillion defenately helped the Pats running game, but it also added to their cap number and they are having to cut some \"key\" players this offseason. And let\'s not forget, the Pats won 2 superbowls without Dillion. I think if the Saints are going to sign some big name player, they\'re going to have to break the bank to do it. Plus, I\'m sure other teams are just as willing to break the bank on some of those same players. I would say that it definitely helped those two teams. New England and Philly both nearly ran the table this year. They were MUCH better teams than the year before, but since their margin for improvement in wins and losses was so low, it seems like they didn\'t improve much. However, they were better than their records indicate. All you had to do was look at the games to see that. Not only that...signing a big name has a PSYCHOLOGICAL effect on a team, the fans and the entire community that can\'t be measured on paper. Yeah sure NE is having to re-structure and what not, but they just won the Super Bowl. There is always fallout from winning a Super Bowl. Basically successful teams seem to either build through the draft or build through free agency, or both. People are saying on one hand we shouldn\'t spend too much on free agents, but on the other hand we shouldn\'t take much of a risk in the draft either. Do you see the problem here. You have to take a risk SOMEWHERE.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-03-2005, 01:01 PM	#28
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Again, who is satisfied with inept? Not me. I want every avaliable guy who can help this team to be signed TODAY!! Are we clear on that? Just as soon as we are, we can discuss things much better without me having to post that everytime.. I\'m not defending the Saints for not making any moves in the past and not helpiing this team get over the hump. I\'m just telling you that it\'s not as simple as oferring X-amount of dollars and it\'s a done deal. Other teams are offering X-amount of dollars too. Do you agree with that or what? You want Womak? Me too. How much does he want? What are other teams offering hiim? Is he willing to come to NOLA? If you were GM, what would you offer him to make him come here?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-03-2005, 01:02 PM	#29
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Saints - Scared to take a shot? as i have stated, i too believe in team building within the confines of the cap as a general rule. i think it is undeniable that there is a time push harder for now over build for the future. sometimes overpaying is a necessary evil to get over the hump. i believe the saints are at such juncture. certainly there have been more losing free agent moves than winners. it goes with the risk turf. but good and wise signings, even when overpaying cannot be ignored also. i will also contend a couple of the examples pointed out... champ bailey was a trade for portis not a free agent signing. they were getting nowhere with one formula so they tried another. i give them credit for not staying put when mediocre. philly and new england not free agent players?!? 8yr/$66million w/$16mil signing bonus for jevon kearse and a 7yr/$48million w/$10mil signing bonus for terrell owens rate as better than moderate free agent aggressiveness imo. pats had a weak link. what did they do? corey dillon is inked for 3.9mil. #4 on their team for cap hit? rosevelt colvin, 3.9mil free agent signing. they bolster my point more. build, build, then when the time comes- go for it! the saints went into the season $11mil UNDER the cap last season. new orleans may not be the ideal destination as a place for some but i cannot imagine green bay being a more liked city. plenty enough players come from louisiana and the surrounding region. why do players go to the frozen tundra? winning. winning breeds winning. the eagles got trotter for under $1mil last year. there is no way you can convince me he would have turned down $2-3 million from n.o. would that have been overpaying? possibly. might he have made a difference in saints run defense? you know that. rod coleman signed by atlanta last spring, difference maker? antoine winfield, minnesota? the big name high impact players go quick. we haven\'t heard a wimper of the saints seriously entertaining any. in fact, the opposite from loomis. the modus operandi has been established. even money here sez n.o. will be one of the top 5 teams under the cap once the season starts. there is more than meets the eye but much is outrightly plain to see as well.

03-03-2005, 01:09 PM	#30
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Saints - Scared to take a shot? Again, who is satisfied with inept? Not me. I want every avaliable guy who can help this team to be signed TODAY!! Are we clear on that? Just as soon as we are, we can discuss things much better without me having to post that everytime.. I\'m not defending the Saints for not making any moves in the past and not helpiing this team get over the hump. I\'m just telling you that it\'s not as simple as oferring X-amount of dollars and it\'s a done deal. Other teams are offering X-amount of dollars too. Do you agree with that or what? You want Womak? Me too. How much does he want? What are other teams offering hiim? Is he willing to come to NOLA? If you were GM, what would you offer him to make him come here? I don\'t think anyone on this board is naive enough to think that it\'s ALL about dollars and cents. What I think we would settle for is a statement from Loomis saying that we tried valiantly to get Hartwell or Bell into a Saints uniform but he opted for greener pastures. I would have no complaints then. We don\'t even get the effort. If we did I\'m sure we would hear about it. That is why people think that the regime is satisfied with mediocrity.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591