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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Significantly upgraded O-line will result in the resurgence of the offense. Duece will have a Pro Bowl year barring injuries...receiving corps is terrific. At this point our only major weakness on offense is at tight end. The improved offense will ...

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Old 04-25-2005, 04:55 PM   #11
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You are what you are?

Significantly upgraded O-line will result in the resurgence of the offense. Duece will have a Pro Bowl year barring injuries...receiving corps is terrific. At this point our only major weakness on offense is at tight end. The improved offense will take some pressure off the defense. This should result in more wins and a better record vs. last year.

But it doesn\'t seem to me that we have done enough on defense to make us real contenders. We have excellent DEs...pitiful DTs, a young linebacking group that would not break the starting line up on any of the top ranked defensive teams in the league...we\'re better in the secondary with McKenzie and Smith vs last year...Teams will run on us and kills us with the tight end. I think we have improved the defense but not enough to make the Saints a serious playoff team.

So, we\'ll be better...our D will not be in the bottom third of NFL teams next year but I don\'t see us in the top third either. And that means better but not good. 9-7...
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:09 PM   #12
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Gotta run to the the store , Whodini. I\'ll be back. You know me...
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:30 PM   #13
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Other teams had a Draft too..and even the ones with poor drafts still improved...

The Free Agent signing was our real bread and butter this off season..the Draft may or may not be good..I think we MAY have gotten 2 starters...(Brown, Fincher)...but..I\'m not sure we improved more than our Division rivals...and that\'s where you HAVE to win to make a run into the playoffs...
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:46 PM   #14
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I don\'t think you just look at this years draft to determine if we improved. Every team also has players they drafted to develop into starters over the next 2 or 3 years.

This year we should see significant contributions from players that didn\'t contribute as much last year.

Henderson-undeniable talent.
Watson-A 2nd year LB with good upside
Leisle-A year of development and off-season work that he couldn\'t do last year should benefit this run stuffer type.
Bockwoldt-You could see him blossom, and now after a year of conditioning he should contribute much more.
Smith-no comment necessary
Stinchcomb-Should provide much better support.

So when you look for improvements from your draftees, you can\'t just look at the current class. You need to look back over the last couple for new contributors.

So Yes, there may only be 2 new starters from the 2005 class, but maybe 5 new starters (or at least solid contributors) from the 2004 class, And a couple more from the 2003 class etc.

McPherson wasn\'t drafted to help in 2005. He was drafted to help in 06 or 07. Probably the same with the Lymon kid.

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Old 04-25-2005, 05:58 PM   #15
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Danno --

Very good points.

Many fans evaluate a team by who they sign in free-agency and by who they drafted.

They never consider improvement by players on the current roster. Which is a bad bad mistake.

You guys think Ed Hartwell was Ed Hartwell in his first season?

Not hardly!!!

Ed Hartwell first year = 6-tackles
Ed Hartwell second year = 103 tackles.

Players often improve drastically in their 2nd year. And it takes some players longer. Some players have break-out seasons in their 3rd and even 4th years.

We need some of our young linebackers to show signifcant improvement. Fortunately we have some promising young LBs on our team.

Good point on current players improving our team.
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Old 04-25-2005, 06:01 PM   #16
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..I actually disagree with the Patriots being the best team in the NFL, or the Eagles being the best team in the NFC..

... the Colts would\'ve beaten the Patriots in the RCA dome...
... the Panthers at full force I think are better than the Eagles...
I\'m gonna have to say that if Pittsburgh can get one game away from the Super Bowl with a rookie QB that they might just be the best team in the AFC/NFL...

And I agree about Carolina being better than Philly if for no other reason Philly proves year in and year out that they are a bunch of chokers. Every time the chips are down, Philly cracks like a cheap watch.
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Old 04-25-2005, 06:20 PM   #17
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Had to scratch my chin a bit regarding this \"you are what you are\" stuff. While I\'m inclined to agree with Danno\'s responses - and I mostly do - after thinking a bit further outside the box I determined that his responses can be loosely applied to every NFL team.

Obviously nobody intends to field a worse team than they had last season, and their existing players (as well as draftees) will be expected to step up and contribute in the same way ours will. So maybe the question really is: Will our improvements be more significant than the improvements of other teams in the league? Thereby resulting in the Saints being better than an 8-8 team?

Sure we want our players from recent drafts (not just 2005) to step up and become bigger role players ... that\'s what player development is all about. But we\'re hardly the only team expecting the same thing. Have our guys developed into better, more game-ready players than those on other teams? Maybe that will determine if we really \"are what we are.\"
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:15 PM   #18
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Hate when I do that.
First of all., I also question AB\'s mental progression. The fact is that AB receives 10times more venom than the O line, LBs, drops, or penalties. I\'m also tired of his fumbles, but like I said, Jake had one fewer, and Moon had just as many.

You\'re reaching, when you accuse him of \"smiling all the time. He hasn\'t grinned all season. Besides, Favre always grins, and makes just as many bone headed plays. He\'s your hero though,huh? Despite AB being practically neck & neck with Favre in production.
To me,your digging up his grinning from a couple years ago is no better than others simply fabricating the quotes I\'m reading about him not watching film.

As for the playoffs, QBs don\'t lead teams anywhere. Ask Peyton & Green. Did Montana bring the Chiefs to the playoffs? Were you commending AB for his heroics during our only playoff win? Many factors go into why we aren\'t in the playoffs. Did we go when AB was rated 7th in the league? Nope. He\'s still in the top ten in yrds & TDs practically every year.

You\'re crying about him never completing 60%, but he was 59.3 % that season. Like BC pointed out, (before I could) last season was the only season he regressed. That was due to the WR drops, lack of running game, and constant pressure. That\'s not an excuse, just facts.

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Old 04-25-2005, 07:25 PM   #19
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Another fact is that the amount of false start penalities and plays called back that we had, would throw any QB out of sorts.

The elite Os around the league simply don\'t make half the mistakes that we do.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:28 PM   #20
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If he would just shut his smiling face he wouldn\'t get half the grief he is getting.
I see you took this the wrong way. I don\'t care that he smiles, I would never use that in my argument(except for when he was smiling and clapping when Vick took the lead from us last year). I meant he needs to keep his mouth shut. Do you disagree? I said smiling mouth as a shot at him.

So your point is Jake fumbled one less time than AB? Was Jake a first year starter or 4th? Think a first year starter would have more problems than a 4th? You see Jake in the Superbowl? You see JAke last year with worse problems than AB put up bette rnumbers than AB ever has? Please don\'t disgrace Jake by comparing AB, cause there is none.

Brady didn\'t lead the Pats to the Superbowl? He had two Superbowl MVPs and his receiver got the 3rd. Okay. Peyton doesn\'t lead his team to the Superbowl? McNabb didn\'t lead his team to 3 straight NFC champ games and a Superbowl? QBs don\'t lead anything? Wow.

And yes I did commend AB during our playoffs win, it wasn\'t until after that I saw what poo he really was. He hasn;t proven me wrong yet, except for initially believing in him.

IS stats the only argument you have for AB? Top ten in yards and TDs almost every year? He is top ten in most boneheaded plays too. And top ten in fumbles, as well as number one in red zone turnovers this year. I am sure you are proud.

And your last statement is why AB will never get a break. Talk about AB without blaming everybody around him. Seattle had WAY more drops, they did okay. Their best receiver played like crap all year, and was suspended 4 games. Please. Constant pressure is due to AB dropping back 6 steps on a 3 step drop, being slow to get from under center, rolling into pressure, AND cause of poor line play. AB made the line look as poor as you are trying to say they made him look.
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