Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says

SloMotion · 02-04-2013, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well.

All valid points, and god knows I've been defending the Lions for 40+yrs, but the fact remains they always find a way snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and I'm tired of sticking up for them. Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!).

It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do.

mutineer10 · 02-04-2013, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!).

It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do.

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

burningmetal · 02-04-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

Just thoroughly wash out those Ratty Mice thoughts with some battery acid. I can't promise that you'll survive, but at least it'll burn the negative memories from your mind.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-04-2013, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation.
Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up)
Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up)
How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2

Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year?

I rest my case.

Oh, and I doing this for your own good

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation.
Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up)
Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up)
How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2
Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year?

I rest my case.

Oh, and I doing this for your own good

I can answer those without looking it up!

#2 WR - Nate Burleson (injured), Titus Young (headcase/DNP), Ryan Broyles (injured), Mike Thomas? (no), Kris Durham? (no), Brian Robiske? (who?). If you go by catches, it would be Titus Young, which kind of shows you the shape the Lions receiving corps was in.

#1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game.

Lions O/line vs. Falcons O/line - The Lions offensive line is surprisingly good at keeping Stafford upright. The Falcons O/line may be better, but I wouldn't consider this as big a factor in Stafford's passing game as a lack of a decent running game or the fact that the Lions receivers led, or were near the top, of the league in dropped balls.

Playing the Saints defense x2yr - That would have been interesting to see if the Lions could have overcome their own deficiencies and taken advantage of the Saints defense. I'd say "yes" if it wasn't for the fact Brees and the Saints offense would totally demoralize Detroit on the other side of the ball ... oh wait, we saw it in the playoffs last year,

.

Sorry for letting my 'Lions-ness' out, just part of my 'recovery' program,

.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-06-2013, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

#1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game.
.

That cracked me up.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

That cracked me up.

Yeah, I'd like to personally apologize to all those who took my recommendation and picked Pettigrew for your fantasy teams,

.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan,

. You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better?

Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ...

Tale of the Tape/2011

QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2
Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3%
Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177
TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 **yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective.

Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5
Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 **I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient

So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

atltillidie · 02-06-2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, . You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better?

Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ...

Tale of the Tape/2011
QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2
Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3%
Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177
TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 **yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective.

Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5
Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 **I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient

So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

You must take into account how much the ball was ran for both seasons, and how many passing attempts there were for each season. At this point, I don't think you can really say that Matt Stafford is much better accurately. Stafford had at least 100 more pass attempts than Ryan during both seasons.

2011 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

We also ran the ball A LOT more than the Lions did. They didn't even qualify for the rushing stats category when the season was over.

2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

The way both of our offenses were different in 2011 makes it hard to tell who's better accurately. I think Ryan is better than Stafford, but it would be easier to tell if they pass the ball just as much as we do, it could work the other way around. Passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats down. It's really hard to win passing the ball 45+ times a game.

SloMotion · 02-07-2013, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by atltillidie

You must take into account how much the ball was ran for both seasons, and how many passing attempts there were for each season. At this point, I don't think you can really say that Matt Stafford is much better accurately. Stafford had at least 100 more pass attempts than Ryan during both seasons.

2011 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

We also ran the ball A LOT more than the Lions did. They didn't even qualify for the rushing stats category when the season was over.

2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

The way both of our offenses were different in 2011 makes it hard to tell who's better accurately. I think Ryan is better than Stafford, but it would be easier to tell if they pass the ball just as much as we do, it could work the other way around. Passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats down. It's really hard to win passing the ball 45+ times a game.

Ok, I gotta' change my avi to field this one. At the end of the day & by my ultimate QB standard (which is playoff/SB wins), I would have to begrudgingly give Ryan the nod on the basis of his recent, single playoff victory. Begrudgingly. I didn't say I was going down without a fight,

.

I want to focus on number of pass attempts because it always comes up. Stafford passes that much 'because he can'. And (noted) the Lions have a mediocre running game. And, when you got a receiver like Calvin Johnson, you build an offense around him & you use him. It's what you do.

But, like you said, passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats. Mathematically, it works against Stafford. When his receivers are holding onto the ball, as in 2011, it works out great, but when they are at or near the top of the league in drops, as in 2012, it's not so great, which the stats in this thread support. It's a wash, IMO. It's like discounting Ryan having a better playoff record at 1-5 then Stafford (0-1) because the Falcon's have gone to the playoffs more. Follow me?

Accuracy. How do you gauge accuracy when 1/2 of the equation is another guy having to catch the ball? I've seen Stafford thread the needle to Calvin in the endzone through triple-teams, more than once. Maybe not so much in 2012, but in 2011, Stafford was dead on. I'm sure Ryan has his moments, I don't see him play all that much. If we hung a tire from a tree in the backyard and gave both players a bushel basket of footballs to throw through the hoop, my money's on Stafford.

The different philosophy in offenses will always leave room for debate, but the big question is, "had Stafford/Ryan switched places, would Ryan have been as successful playing for the Lions and would Stafford have been as successful playing for the Falcons?" I don't think Ryan would have been as successful and I think Stafford would have taken the Falcons deep into the playoffs and possibly to a SuperBowl. But that's just speculation. Maybe someone could run it through Madden and share the results, if that's possible.

That's cool ESPN doesn't even reference the Lions running stats, that's why most poster don't reference ESPN around here. The "E" is for 'entertainment', they're not the best source of information. Just sayin'. No big deal, rookie mistake. It ain't like they're (the Lions) going to magically have better running stats then Atlanta on another source. But at least the stats will be listed. I do appreciate the time & effort you took in validating your opinion.

And anyway, to stay on topic, Calvin is better than Julio Jones. woop! woop!

.

02-04-2013, 08:12 AM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. Just thoroughly wash out those Ratty Mice thoughts with some battery acid. I can't promise that you'll survive, but at least it'll burn the negative memories from your mind.

02-04-2013, 04:09 PM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation. Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up) Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up) How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2 Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year? I rest my case. Oh, and I doing this for your own good mutineer10 and SloMotion like this.

02-06-2013, 07:06 AM	#5
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation. Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up) Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up) How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2 Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year? I rest my case. Oh, and I doing this for your own good I can answer those without looking it up! #2 WR - Nate Burleson (injured), Titus Young (headcase/DNP), Ryan Broyles (injured), Mike Thomas? (no), Kris Durham? (no), Brian Robiske? (who?). If you go by catches, it would be Titus Young, which kind of shows you the shape the Lions receiving corps was in. #1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game. Lions O/line vs. Falcons O/line - The Lions offensive line is surprisingly good at keeping Stafford upright. The Falcons O/line may be better, but I wouldn't consider this as big a factor in Stafford's passing game as a lack of a decent running game or the fact that the Lions receivers led, or were near the top, of the league in dropped balls. Playing the Saints defense x2yr - That would have been interesting to see if the Lions could have overcome their own deficiencies and taken advantage of the Saints defense. I'd say "yes" if it wasn't for the fact Brees and the Saints offense would totally demoralize Detroit on the other side of the ball ... oh wait, we saw it in the playoffs last year, . Sorry for letting my 'Lions-ness' out, just part of my 'recovery' program, . Tobias-Reiper likes this.

02-06-2013, 10:41 AM	#6
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion #1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game. . That cracked me up.

02-06-2013, 05:07 PM	#7
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper That cracked me up. Yeah, I'd like to personally apologize to all those who took my recommendation and picked Pettigrew for your fantasy teams, . mutineer10 likes this.

02-04-2013, 06:17 AM	#1
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by WillSaints81 I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well. All valid points, and god knows I've been defending the Lions for 40+yrs, but the fact remains they always find a way snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and I'm tired of sticking up for them. Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!). It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do. mutineer10 likes this.

02-04-2013, 07:25 AM	#2
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!). It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do. Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

02-06-2013, 06:41 AM	#8
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, . You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better? Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ... Tale of the Tape/2011 QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2 Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3% Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177 TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 *yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective. Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5 Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 *I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

02-06-2013, 06:51 PM	#9
atltillidie 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 432	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, . You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better? Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ... Tale of the Tape/2011 QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2 Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3% Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177 TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 *yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective. Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5 Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 *I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them. You must take into account how much the ball was ran for both seasons, and how many passing attempts there were for each season. At this point, I don't think you can really say that Matt Stafford is much better accurately. Stafford had at least 100 more pass attempts than Ryan during both seasons. 2011 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN 2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN We also ran the ball A LOT more than the Lions did. They didn't even qualify for the rushing stats category when the season was over. 2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN 2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN The way both of our offenses were different in 2011 makes it hard to tell who's better accurately. I think Ryan is better than Stafford, but it would be easier to tell if they pass the ball just as much as we do, it could work the other way around. Passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats down. It's really hard to win passing the ball 45+ times a game.

02-07-2013, 06:50 AM	#10
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by atltillidie You must take into account how much the ball was ran for both seasons, and how many passing attempts there were for each season. At this point, I don't think you can really say that Matt Stafford is much better accurately. Stafford had at least 100 more pass attempts than Ryan during both seasons. 2011 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN 2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN We also ran the ball A LOT more than the Lions did. They didn't even qualify for the rushing stats category when the season was over. 2011 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN 2012 NFL Player Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN The way both of our offenses were different in 2011 makes it hard to tell who's better accurately. I think Ryan is better than Stafford, but it would be easier to tell if they pass the ball just as much as we do, it could work the other way around. Passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats down. It's really hard to win passing the ball 45+ times a game. Ok, I gotta' change my avi to field this one. At the end of the day & by my ultimate QB standard (which is playoff/SB wins), I would have to begrudgingly give Ryan the nod on the basis of his recent, single playoff victory. Begrudgingly. I didn't say I was going down without a fight, . I want to focus on number of pass attempts because it always comes up. Stafford passes that much 'because he can'. And (noted) the Lions have a mediocre running game. And, when you got a receiver like Calvin Johnson, you build an offense around him & you use him. It's what you do. But, like you said, passing the ball as much as the Lions do really knock your stats. Mathematically, it works against Stafford. When his receivers are holding onto the ball, as in 2011, it works out great, but when they are at or near the top of the league in drops, as in 2012, it's not so great, which the stats in this thread support. It's a wash, IMO. It's like discounting Ryan having a better playoff record at 1-5 then Stafford (0-1) because the Falcon's have gone to the playoffs more. Follow me? Accuracy. How do you gauge accuracy when 1/2 of the equation is another guy having to catch the ball? I've seen Stafford thread the needle to Calvin in the endzone through triple-teams, more than once. Maybe not so much in 2012, but in 2011, Stafford was dead on. I'm sure Ryan has his moments, I don't see him play all that much. If we hung a tire from a tree in the backyard and gave both players a bushel basket of footballs to throw through the hoop, my money's on Stafford. The different philosophy in offenses will always leave room for debate, but the big question is, "had Stafford/Ryan switched places, would Ryan have been as successful playing for the Lions and would Stafford have been as successful playing for the Falcons?" I don't think Ryan would have been as successful and I think Stafford would have taken the Falcons deep into the playoffs and possibly to a SuperBowl. But that's just speculation. Maybe someone could run it through Madden and share the results, if that's possible. That's cool ESPN doesn't even reference the Lions running stats, that's why most poster don't reference ESPN around here. The "E" is for 'entertainment', they're not the best source of information. Just sayin'. No big deal, rookie mistake. It ain't like they're (the Lions) going to magically have better running stats then Atlanta on another source. But at least the stats will be listed. I do appreciate the time & effort you took in validating your opinion. And anyway, to stay on topic, Calvin is better than Julio Jones. woop! woop! .