Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says

Danno · 02-05-2013, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

Thats a dam shame.

I like Gil Brandt, and you have to understand he's one of those positive thinking guys that sees the upside in players moreso than the downside.

If you listen to him long enough, and I have listened to him for years now, you can read between the lines. Tepid enthusiasm toward a certain player translates to "this guy friggin sucks".

He's also dead-on right 95% of the time with his comments.

Budsdrinker · 02-05-2013, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. .

Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones.

I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, .

Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan,

. You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better?

Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ...

Tale of the Tape/2011

QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2
Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3%
Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177
TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 **yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective.

Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5
Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 **I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient

So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation.
Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up)
Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up)
How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2
Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year?

I rest my case.

Oh, and I doing this for your own good

I can answer those without looking it up!

#2 WR - Nate Burleson (injured), Titus Young (headcase/DNP), Ryan Broyles (injured), Mike Thomas? (no), Kris Durham? (no), Brian Robiske? (who?). If you go by catches, it would be Titus Young, which kind of shows you the shape the Lions receiving corps was in.

#1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game.

Lions O/line vs. Falcons O/line - The Lions offensive line is surprisingly good at keeping Stafford upright. The Falcons O/line may be better, but I wouldn't consider this as big a factor in Stafford's passing game as a lack of a decent running game or the fact that the Lions receivers led, or were near the top, of the league in dropped balls.

Playing the Saints defense x2yr - That would have been interesting to see if the Lions could have overcome their own deficiencies and taken advantage of the Saints defense. I'd say "yes" if it wasn't for the fact Brees and the Saints offense would totally demoralize Detroit on the other side of the ball ... oh wait, we saw it in the playoffs last year,

.

Sorry for letting my 'Lions-ness' out, just part of my 'recovery' program,

.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

I like Gil Brandt, and you have to understand he's one of those positive thinking guys that sees the upside in players moreso than the downside.

If you listen to him long enough, and I have listened to him for years now, you can read between the lines. Tepid enthusiasm toward a certain player translates to "this guy friggin sucks".

He's also dead-on right 95% of the time with his comments.

Ok, I know you like to argue for argument's sake sometimes, so what are you saying? Jones IS better than Calvin?

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success.

, Stafford's had a rough start to his career, injury-wise & having to play for Detroit, but I think he's 'potential unrealized' at this point. We saw what he did in 2011 with a solid receiving corps.

People were really getting on him for the sidearm throws, but you're right, it's part of the kid's style and honestly, he was throwing under duress quite a bit this season, which is where I think the sidearm came from.

Danno · 02-06-2013, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

Ok, I know you like to argue for argument's sake sometimes, so what are you saying? Jones IS better than Calvin?

No, I think its a little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

No, I think its a little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team.

Oh, just wanted to clarify,

... and that's kind of where I'm at in the debate. Jones may be the better receiver one day, the potential is certainly there & he's one to watch, just not today. Gotta' put his time in.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-06-2013, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

#1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game.
.

That cracked me up.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

That cracked me up.

Yeah, I'd like to personally apologize to all those who took my recommendation and picked Pettigrew for your fantasy teams,

.

02-05-2013, 09:25 AM	#21
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by QBREES9 Thats a dam shame. I like Gil Brandt, and you have to understand he's one of those positive thinking guys that sees the upside in players moreso than the downside. If you listen to him long enough, and I have listened to him for years now, you can read between the lines. Tepid enthusiasm toward a certain player translates to "this guy friggin sucks". He's also dead-on right 95% of the time with his comments.

02-05-2013, 09:59 AM	#22
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. . Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones. I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, . Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success. SloMotion likes this.

02-06-2013, 07:41 AM	#23
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, . You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better? Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ... Tale of the Tape/2011 QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2 Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3% Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177 TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 *yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective. Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5 Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 *I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

02-06-2013, 08:06 AM	#24
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation. Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up) Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up) How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2 Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year? I rest my case. Oh, and I doing this for your own good I can answer those without looking it up! #2 WR - Nate Burleson (injured), Titus Young (headcase/DNP), Ryan Broyles (injured), Mike Thomas? (no), Kris Durham? (no), Brian Robiske? (who?). If you go by catches, it would be Titus Young, which kind of shows you the shape the Lions receiving corps was in. #1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game. Lions O/line vs. Falcons O/line - The Lions offensive line is surprisingly good at keeping Stafford upright. The Falcons O/line may be better, but I wouldn't consider this as big a factor in Stafford's passing game as a lack of a decent running game or the fact that the Lions receivers led, or were near the top, of the league in dropped balls. Playing the Saints defense x2yr - That would have been interesting to see if the Lions could have overcome their own deficiencies and taken advantage of the Saints defense. I'd say "yes" if it wasn't for the fact Brees and the Saints offense would totally demoralize Detroit on the other side of the ball ... oh wait, we saw it in the playoffs last year, . Sorry for letting my 'Lions-ness' out, just part of my 'recovery' program, . Tobias-Reiper likes this.

02-06-2013, 08:07 AM	#25
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Danno I like Gil Brandt, and you have to understand he's one of those positive thinking guys that sees the upside in players moreso than the downside. If you listen to him long enough, and I have listened to him for years now, you can read between the lines. Tepid enthusiasm toward a certain player translates to "this guy friggin sucks". He's also dead-on right 95% of the time with his comments. Ok, I know you like to argue for argument's sake sometimes, so what are you saying? Jones IS better than Calvin?

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02-06-2013, 08:12 AM	#26
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Budsdrinker Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success. , Stafford's had a rough start to his career, injury-wise & having to play for Detroit, but I think he's 'potential unrealized' at this point. We saw what he did in 2011 with a solid receiving corps. People were really getting on him for the sidearm throws, but you're right, it's part of the kid's style and honestly, he was throwing under duress quite a bit this season, which is where I think the sidearm came from.

02-06-2013, 09:24 AM	#27
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion Ok, I know you like to argue for argument's sake sometimes, so what are you saying? Jones IS better than Calvin? No, I think its a little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team.

02-06-2013, 09:28 AM	#28
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Danno No, I think its a little far fatched, but not by much. Julio is a freak and will only get better. I'm pulling for him, he's one of my favorite non-Saints and I hope someday he leaves the Falcons for a different team. Oh, just wanted to clarify, ... and that's kind of where I'm at in the debate. Jones may be the better receiver one day, the potential is certainly there & he's one to watch, just not today. Gotta' put his time in.

02-06-2013, 11:41 AM	#29
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion #1 TE - Brandon "get-that-boy-some-stick 'um" Pettigrew. Tony Scheffler is a close second & a fan favorite, but Brandon usually gets more opportunities to drop passes than Scheffler in any given game. . That cracked me up.

02-06-2013, 06:07 PM	#30
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper That cracked me up. Yeah, I'd like to personally apologize to all those who took my recommendation and picked Pettigrew for your fantasy teams, . mutineer10 likes this.