I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson

dizzle88 · 01-20-2021, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Brother, for all intents and purposes, we are broke. Loomis will need to pull the eye or sauron out of his azz to make 2021 work.

Yep, the team is likely to look very different next year.

I wouldn't mind seeing what Jameis could do, but seeing his past efforts and seeing Taysom play this year, I'm really not sold on either of them at QB.

K Major · 01-20-2021, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I wouldn't mind seeing what Jameis could do, but seeing his past efforts and seeing Taysom play this year, I'm really not sold on either of them at QB.

I think JW is the starter (or at least the front runner) in 2021 assuming he resigns in NO. Taysom is a great gadget/football player but I don't see him as the answer.

For me, it's the turnovers/indecisiveness to read defenses & the ability to throw receivers open.

2021 Saints football will be interesting

.

gosaints1 · 01-20-2021, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Janice McNair is worth $3.9B, that’s what they do.. exploit gullibility. all of them.

I have lived in Houston for 11 years now , the Texans have always been a sh1tshow. Bon was no better than Janice. When people say a franchise wasted a players career, the Texans is always what enters my mind.

This is why athletes don’t have much of a say in high level discussions, it’s not that they can’t be trusted it’s that they don’t have the experience to provide value and be productive. They are a risk, heck players don’t even head their own union. I’m not Tillman Fertitta but I’ve participated in discussions and negotiations for contracts over $125M... it’s a dance and you take nothing for face value. Watson believing McNair doesn’t speak to McNair’s character, it speaks to Watsons gullibility. If it’s not in black and white with a signature it’s meaningless to those guys.

Those owners did not amass their fortunes with transparency and honesty, not a single one of them.

Desean Watson is 25 years old with a degree in Communication.
We all think of our selves as intelligent but honestly.. what skill sets do we have that would allow us to vet Loomis on contract negotiations and Cap management. Everyone says he works magic, no one says what he does is simple. I’m not a magician. Sorry I got started and couldn’t stop lol.

Tl:dr

What value does Desean Watson think he will contribute to the hiring process of an executive that will be charged with cap management and contract negotiations?

A lot of people were upset that we had an assistant coach doing a one hour interview during a playoff week... a QB of a 4-12 team should be focused on an executive management hiring lol. He should be saying no to that

Fully understand, and agree. Which brings it back to trust, right? That new contract he just signed was deliberately built on restoring a “culture” that is more player friendly, that was the “value” he provided, or wanted to. One that was player friendly. Guess that didn’t work out, lol. Regardless players aren’t some subservient, bound by contract, shut up and play entity. They have powers also. Don’t believe me? Look at what happened to this locker room and management during preseason.

NOLA54 · 01-20-2021, 01:25 PM

Have we forgotten that Payton believes Drew's replacement is in the house? I don't think Taysom is the answer. Winston has the skills and has started for 5 yeats but without the right coaching. I wouldn't kick him to the curb in favor of Watson.

hitta · 01-20-2021, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Brady can’t scramble, Brees is short, Manning didn’t have an arm.
When will it click that great QBs aren’t about physical traits but rather their ability to make decisions?

A QB deciding that he should have a say in a General Manager hiring is pretty +*^%ing stupid.

Yea I concede, I misread what you wrote. He had a problem with the GM's decisions though too, especially after DeAndre Hopkins was traded. He was promised a role in the hiring on the GM and coaches, so the lies are not good form on the part of the Texans.

iceshack149 · 01-20-2021, 02:20 PM

I'd like the Saints to keep their draft stock and run with Winston at QB. They will restructure and hopefully make some trades but this team will lose some quality players in the coming months so the draft will be more important than ever. I'm glad Ireland is here for that.

blackangold · 01-20-2021, 02:21 PM

When looking at players that will be on the FA market or available via trade...

PLEASE do this first: ask yourself do the Saints have cap room?
The answer will always be no for 2021.

Taysom Hill will be the QB for 2021. Not because he is better than other options, but because he is under contract.

WE ARE $96M OVER THE CAP. We are so far over the cap without signing any FA to fill a full roster....

Hopefully I crushed the dreams of a few. We will be lucky to walk away with a 8-8 record. If Payton get us to 9-7 than ill be shocked (the cap is the problem, not Brees leaving).

iceshack149 · 01-20-2021, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

When looking at players that will be on the FA market or available via trade...

PLEASE do this first: ask yourself do the Saints have cap room?
The answer will always be no for 2021.

Taysom Hill will be the QB for 2021. Not because he is better than other options, but because he is under contract.

WE ARE $96M OVER THE CAP. We are so far over the cap without signing any FA to fill a full roster....

Hopefully I crushed the dreams of a few. We will be lucky to walk away with a 8-8 record. If Payton get us to 9-7 than ill be shocked (the cap is the problem, not Brees leaving).

Ross Jackson does a great job of addressing this on Monday's Whodat Confessional podcast. He basically stated that Loomis and Khai Hartley have multiple ways to trim the fat and doesn't think that the team will look that much different. (I have a hard time believing that but Ross is probably correct. He's a smart guy).

ikecomp · 01-20-2021, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Janice McNair is worth $3.9B, that’s what they do.. exploit gullibility. all of them.

I have lived in Houston for 11 years now , the Texans have always been a sh1tshow. Bon was no better than Janice. When people say a franchise wasted a players career, the Texans is always what enters my mind.

This is why athletes don’t have much of a say in high level discussions, it’s not that they can’t be trusted it’s that they don’t have the experience to provide value and be productive. They are a risk, heck players don’t even head their own union. I’m not Tillman Fertitta but I’ve participated in discussions and negotiations for contracts over $125M... it’s a dance and you take nothing for face value. Watson believing McNair doesn’t speak to McNair’s character, it speaks to Watsons gullibility. If it’s not in black and white with a signature it’s meaningless to those guys.

Those owners did not amass their fortunes with transparency and honesty, not a single one of them.

Desean Watson is 25 years old with a degree in Communication.
We all think of our selves as intelligent but honestly.. what skill sets do we have that would allow us to vet Loomis on contract negotiations and Cap management. Everyone says he works magic, no one says what he does is simple. I’m not a magician. Sorry I got started and couldn’t stop lol.

Tl:dr

What value does Desean Watson think he will contribute to the hiring process of an executive that will be charged with cap management and contract negotiations?

A lot of people were upset that we had an assistant coach doing a one hour interview during a playoff week... a QB of a 4-12 team should be focused on an executive management hiring lol. He should be saying no to that

Unfortunately none of that means anything. There are consequences for every decision. If you lie to the face of your franchise player and just try to explain it away later as "just business" or "I made my fortune lying to people just like I lied to you. It's nothing personal" then you can't be mad later if it creates bad blood between you and said player.

Whether the texans were smart enough to know this ahead of time is debatable but either way it back fired on them and this is the result. Being gullible has consequences. So does being deceitful.

blackangold · 01-20-2021, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Ross Jackson does a great job of addressing this on Monday's Whodat Confessional podcast. He basically stated that Loomis and Khai Hartley have multiple ways to trim the fat and doesn't think that the team will look that much different. (I have a hard time believing that but Ross is probably correct. He's a smart guy).

Ross may be a genius, but this team will look dramatically different next year. You can find any Tom, Dick or Sally saying what you want to hear all day, or you can look at it for yourself and see if you can shed $96m while remaining competitive.
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/

Loomis and Payton blew their load building a team for Drew, they never should have signed him for this last contract (in my opinion).

01-20-2021, 12:16 PM	#21
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by TheOak Brother, for all intents and purposes, we are broke. Loomis will need to pull the eye or sauron out of his azz to make 2021 work. Yep, the team is likely to look very different next year. I wouldn't mind seeing what Jameis could do, but seeing his past efforts and seeing Taysom play this year, I'm really not sold on either of them at QB.

01-20-2021, 12:30 PM	#22
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,065 Blog Entries: 3	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by dizzle88 I wouldn't mind seeing what Jameis could do, but seeing his past efforts and seeing Taysom play this year, I'm really not sold on either of them at QB. I think JW is the starter (or at least the front runner) in 2021 assuming he resigns in NO. Taysom is a great gadget/football player but I don't see him as the answer. For me, it's the turnovers/indecisiveness to read defenses & the ability to throw receivers open. 2021 Saints football will be interesting . iceshack149 likes this.

01-20-2021, 12:55 PM	#23
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by TheOak Janice McNair is worth $3.9B, that’s what they do.. exploit gullibility. all of them. I have lived in Houston for 11 years now , the Texans have always been a sh1tshow. Bon was no better than Janice. When people say a franchise wasted a players career, the Texans is always what enters my mind. This is why athletes don’t have much of a say in high level discussions, it’s not that they can’t be trusted it’s that they don’t have the experience to provide value and be productive. They are a risk, heck players don’t even head their own union. I’m not Tillman Fertitta but I’ve participated in discussions and negotiations for contracts over $125M... it’s a dance and you take nothing for face value. Watson believing McNair doesn’t speak to McNair’s character, it speaks to Watsons gullibility. If it’s not in black and white with a signature it’s meaningless to those guys. Those owners did not amass their fortunes with transparency and honesty, not a single one of them. Desean Watson is 25 years old with a degree in Communication. We all think of our selves as intelligent but honestly.. what skill sets do we have that would allow us to vet Loomis on contract negotiations and Cap management. Everyone says he works magic, no one says what he does is simple. I’m not a magician. Sorry I got started and couldn’t stop lol. Tl:dr What value does Desean Watson think he will contribute to the hiring process of an executive that will be charged with cap management and contract negotiations? A lot of people were upset that we had an assistant coach doing a one hour interview during a playoff week... a QB of a 4-12 team should be focused on an executive management hiring lol. He should be saying no to that Fully understand, and agree. Which brings it back to trust, right? That new contract he just signed was deliberately built on restoring a “culture” that is more player friendly, that was the “value” he provided, or wanted to. One that was player friendly. Guess that didn’t work out, lol. Regardless players aren’t some subservient, bound by contract, shut up and play entity. They have powers also. Don’t believe me? Look at what happened to this locker room and management during preseason.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

01-20-2021, 01:25 PM	#24
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,702 Blog Entries: 1	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Have we forgotten that Payton believes Drew's replacement is in the house? I don't think Taysom is the answer. Winston has the skills and has started for 5 yeats but without the right coaching. I wouldn't kick him to the curb in favor of Watson. Audiotom likes this.

01-20-2021, 01:29 PM	#25
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,301	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by TheOak Brady can’t scramble, Brees is short, Manning didn’t have an arm. When will it click that great QBs aren’t about physical traits but rather their ability to make decisions? A QB deciding that he should have a say in a General Manager hiring is pretty +*^%ing stupid. Yea I concede, I misread what you wrote. He had a problem with the GM's decisions though too, especially after DeAndre Hopkins was traded. He was promised a role in the hiring on the GM and coaches, so the lies are not good form on the part of the Texans. TheOak likes this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,301

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01-20-2021, 02:20 PM	#26
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,097 Blog Entries: 1	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson I'd like the Saints to keep their draft stock and run with Winston at QB. They will restructure and hopefully make some trades but this team will lose some quality players in the coming months so the draft will be more important than ever. I'm glad Ireland is here for that.

01-20-2021, 02:21 PM	#27
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson When looking at players that will be on the FA market or available via trade... PLEASE do this first: ask yourself do the Saints have cap room? The answer will always be no for 2021. Taysom Hill will be the QB for 2021. Not because he is better than other options, but because he is under contract. WE ARE $96M OVER THE CAP. We are so far over the cap without signing any FA to fill a full roster.... Hopefully I crushed the dreams of a few. We will be lucky to walk away with a 8-8 record. If Payton get us to 9-7 than ill be shocked (the cap is the problem, not Brees leaving).
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

01-20-2021, 02:40 PM	#28
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,097 Blog Entries: 1	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by blackangold When looking at players that will be on the FA market or available via trade... PLEASE do this first: ask yourself do the Saints have cap room? The answer will always be no for 2021. Taysom Hill will be the QB for 2021. Not because he is better than other options, but because he is under contract. WE ARE $96M OVER THE CAP. We are so far over the cap without signing any FA to fill a full roster.... Hopefully I crushed the dreams of a few. We will be lucky to walk away with a 8-8 record. If Payton get us to 9-7 than ill be shocked (the cap is the problem, not Brees leaving). Ross Jackson does a great job of addressing this on Monday's Whodat Confessional podcast. He basically stated that Loomis and Khai Hartley have multiple ways to trim the fat and doesn't think that the team will look that much different. (I have a hard time believing that but Ross is probably correct. He's a smart guy). gosaints1 likes this.

01-20-2021, 04:19 PM	#29
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by TheOak Janice McNair is worth $3.9B, that’s what they do.. exploit gullibility. all of them. I have lived in Houston for 11 years now , the Texans have always been a sh1tshow. Bon was no better than Janice. When people say a franchise wasted a players career, the Texans is always what enters my mind. This is why athletes don’t have much of a say in high level discussions, it’s not that they can’t be trusted it’s that they don’t have the experience to provide value and be productive. They are a risk, heck players don’t even head their own union. I’m not Tillman Fertitta but I’ve participated in discussions and negotiations for contracts over $125M... it’s a dance and you take nothing for face value. Watson believing McNair doesn’t speak to McNair’s character, it speaks to Watsons gullibility. If it’s not in black and white with a signature it’s meaningless to those guys. Those owners did not amass their fortunes with transparency and honesty, not a single one of them. Desean Watson is 25 years old with a degree in Communication. We all think of our selves as intelligent but honestly.. what skill sets do we have that would allow us to vet Loomis on contract negotiations and Cap management. Everyone says he works magic, no one says what he does is simple. I’m not a magician. Sorry I got started and couldn’t stop lol. Tl:dr What value does Desean Watson think he will contribute to the hiring process of an executive that will be charged with cap management and contract negotiations? A lot of people were upset that we had an assistant coach doing a one hour interview during a playoff week... a QB of a 4-12 team should be focused on an executive management hiring lol. He should be saying no to that Unfortunately none of that means anything. There are consequences for every decision. If you lie to the face of your franchise player and just try to explain it away later as "just business" or "I made my fortune lying to people just like I lied to you. It's nothing personal" then you can't be mad later if it creates bad blood between you and said player. Whether the texans were smart enough to know this ahead of time is debatable but either way it back fired on them and this is the result. Being gullible has consequences. So does being deceitful. Rsanders24 and K Major like this.
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329

01-20-2021, 04:23 PM	#30
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: I would bet the farm on Deshaun Watson Originally Posted by iceshack149 Ross Jackson does a great job of addressing this on Monday's Whodat Confessional podcast. He basically stated that Loomis and Khai Hartley have multiple ways to trim the fat and doesn't think that the team will look that much different. (I have a hard time believing that but Ross is probably correct. He's a smart guy). Ross may be a genius, but this team will look dramatically different next year. You can find any Tom, Dick or Sally saying what you want to hear all day, or you can look at it for yourself and see if you can shed $96m while remaining competitive. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/ Loomis and Payton blew their load building a team for Drew, they never should have signed him for this last contract (in my opinion). dizzle88 likes this.