Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints

06-27-2021, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

There was a guy that had been in the league for half a decade and was not retained by his original team. It was not until he got the opportunity to start for the Saints in Sean Payton's offense that he realized his potential. His name was Drew Brees.

He had never thrown for over 5000 yards before coming to the Saints. Heck, he'd never passed for 4000 yards. He only managed to complete 65% of his passes once in that half a decade (65.5%). He had never topped 27 TD's in a season and more than 17 TD's only twice.

I was going to say that that viewpoint is NUTS, but in your case I'll say hopeful Saints fan blinders. Drew was ALWAYS on an upward projection. Look, I see Winston has talent, but QB REQUIRES good and quick decision making. Drew not being retained was due to INJURY, not poor QB play. I remember watching SD games and thinking, "That Brees kid has got it." Brees and Winston were not retained for FAR different reasons. Winston always reminded me of Aaron Brooks, only not as smart.

Thirty3 · 06-27-2021, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Speaking of potential, in Drew Brees' first half a decade he produced 80 TD's. This is the same guy that later met his potential and became the NFL's all-time leader in TD passes. After Jameis Winston's first half a decade he struggled to ONLY 121 TD's, over 50% more than that Drew Brees guy managed in his first half a decade.

In Brees' first half a decade he passed for 12,348 yards. This is the same guy that later met his potential and became the NFL's all-time leader in yards passing. After Jameis Winston's first half a decade he struggled to ONLY 19,737 yards, once again well over 50% more than that Drew Brees guy managed in his first half a decade.

In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't.

AsylumGuido · 06-27-2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Thirty3

I was going to say that that viewpoint is NUTS, but in your case I'll say hopeful Saints fan blinders. Drew was ALWAYS on an upward projection. Look, I see Winston has talent, but QB REQUIRES good and quick decision making. Drew not being retained was due to INJURY, not poor QB play. I remember watching SD games and thinking, "That Brees kid has got it." Brees and Winston were not retained for FAR different reasons. Winston always reminded me of Aaron Brooks, only not as smart.

Not as smart? The Wonderlic measures a person's ability to process information quickly. Winston scored a 27 on the test. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning both scored 28's.

Everything I've ever heard about Winston is how intelligent he is.

"Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher is not surprised by reports that quarterback Jameis Winston impressed NFL teams with the intelligence he demonstrated in interviews at the Combine.

Fisher, who has been a quarterbacks coach, offensive coordinator or head coach for 27 years, said he has never coached a player with the level of football intelligence that Winston possesses.

“Jameis, in football intellect, intelligence level, is as smart as anybody I’ve ever been around,” Fisher said on NFL Network. “You can do so many different things with him and he grasps it. He just doesn’t memorize plays, he understands the concepts of how to attack the coverage, how a play works, where his one-on-one matchups are. He just has a tremendous football intellect that way.”"

Boston Saint · 06-27-2021, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Thirty3

In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't.

Two thoughts 30: One is Rivers was drafted before Brees was hurt, so obviously the Charges has more worries about Brees than just his injury.

Second, I never saw Winston smiling and laughing on the sidelines after throwing an Int. I did see Brooks do that. I don’t agree with the comparison. Just my opinion.

Boston Saint · 06-27-2021, 11:36 AM

Quoted the wrong post Thirty. Sorry.

iceshack149 · 06-27-2021, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Thirty3

In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't.

Perspective is everything. Brees had one of the best RB's to ever play in the NFL in the backfield with him to start his career and a solid defense to boot. He didn't throw it all over the place to stay in games or win them. The Chargers felt that they couldn't pass on a big 6'5" QB when they picked early in the draft (due mostly to poor management of the team from the top down and not Drew Brees, though they made a scape goat out of Drew).

AsylumGuido · 06-27-2021, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Thirty3

In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't.

Not sure where your version of history comes from ... BUT ...

First, Philip Rivers was not drafted by the San Diego Chargers. He was drafted by the New York Giants. He was traded to the Chargers for San Diego's 1st round selection, Eli Manning.

Secondly, Philip Rivers was acquired by the Chargers in 2004 and it had nothing to do with Brees' injury which occurred in the final game of the 2005 season.

Third, Brees was offered an incentive laden contract to remain with the Chargers, but gambled on his potential to go elsewhere. It was not because they "weren't sure Drew could recover".

And finally, Jameis Winston was not FIRED as you seem to claim. His contract expired and he was a free agent. He could have resigned with Tampa Bay for a deal similar to the one he agreed to with the Saints, but like Brees, he gambled on his potential to go elsewhere. Now he's looking at a starting gig with the most prolific offensive mind in the NFL.

AsylumGuido · 06-27-2021, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Perspective is everything. Brees had one of the best RB's to ever play in the NFL in the backfield with him to start his career and a solid defense to boot. He didn't throw it all over the place to stay in games or win them. The Chargers felt that they couldn't pass on a big 6'5" QB when they picked early in the draft (due mostly to poor management of the team from the top down and not Drew Brees, though they made a scape goat out of Drew).

Actually, the Chargers did pass on Philip Rivers in the 2004 draft. They selected Eli Manning, instead.

jeanpierre · 06-27-2021, 01:23 PM

Mannings were up front they didn't want Eli playing in San Diego because of the way that franchise was run - Lessons from Archie Manning's career ruined by John Mecom...

San Diego knew this and were looking at Rivers also; still selected Manning knowing they'd get Rivers and picks to boot - Saving face, Salvaging a Disadvantaged Hand...

Brees had been inconsistent at that point, even being benched for poor play; San Diego had a prototype in mind at QB, and Brees at 6' 0" wasn't it...

AsylumGuido · 06-27-2021, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Mannings were up front they didn't want Eli playing in San Diego because of the way that franchise was run - Lessons from Archie Manning's career ruined by John Mecom...

San Diego knew this and were looking at Rivers also; still selected Manning knowing they'd get Rivers and picks to boot - Saving face, Salvaging a Disadvantaged Hand...

Brees had been inconsistent at that point, even being benched for poor play; San Diego had a prototype in mind at QB, and Brees at 6' 0" wasn't it...

Mismanagement and an inconsistent QB that hadn't reached his potential. Sounds a lot like Tampa Bay and Winston, doesn't it?

06-27-2021, 10:11 AM	#21
Threaded by Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by AsylumGuido There was a guy that had been in the league for half a decade and was not retained by his original team. It was not until he got the opportunity to start for the Saints in Sean Payton's offense that he realized his potential. His name was Drew Brees. He had never thrown for over 5000 yards before coming to the Saints. Heck, he'd never passed for 4000 yards. He only managed to complete 65% of his passes once in that half a decade (65.5%). He had never topped 27 TD's in a season and more than 17 TD's only twice. I was going to say that that viewpoint is NUTS, but in your case I'll say hopeful Saints fan blinders. Drew was ALWAYS on an upward projection. Look, I see Winston has talent, but QB REQUIRES good and quick decision making. Drew not being retained was due to INJURY, not poor QB play. I remember watching SD games and thinking, "That Brees kid has got it." Brees and Winston were not retained for FAR different reasons. Winston always reminded me of Aaron Brooks, only not as smart.
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06-27-2021, 10:51 AM	#22
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Speaking of potential, in Drew Brees' first half a decade he produced 80 TD's. This is the same guy that later met his potential and became the NFL's all-time leader in TD passes. After Jameis Winston's first half a decade he struggled to ONLY 121 TD's, over 50% more than that Drew Brees guy managed in his first half a decade. In Brees' first half a decade he passed for 12,348 yards. This is the same guy that later met his potential and became the NFL's all-time leader in yards passing. After Jameis Winston's first half a decade he struggled to ONLY 19,737 yards, once again well over 50% more than that Drew Brees guy managed in his first half a decade. In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't.
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255

06-27-2021, 11:31 AM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Thirty3 I was going to say that that viewpoint is NUTS, but in your case I'll say hopeful Saints fan blinders. Drew was ALWAYS on an upward projection. Look, I see Winston has talent, but QB REQUIRES good and quick decision making. Drew not being retained was due to INJURY, not poor QB play. I remember watching SD games and thinking, "That Brees kid has got it." Brees and Winston were not retained for FAR different reasons. Winston always reminded me of Aaron Brooks, only not as smart. Not as smart? The Wonderlic measures a person's ability to process information quickly. Winston scored a 27 on the test. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning both scored 28's. Everything I've ever heard about Winston is how intelligent he is. "Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher is not surprised by reports that quarterback Jameis Winston impressed NFL teams with the intelligence he demonstrated in interviews at the Combine. Fisher, who has been a quarterbacks coach, offensive coordinator or head coach for 27 years, said he has never coached a player with the level of football intelligence that Winston possesses. “Jameis, in football intellect, intelligence level, is as smart as anybody I’ve ever been around,” Fisher said on NFL Network. “You can do so many different things with him and he grasps it. He just doesn’t memorize plays, he understands the concepts of how to attack the coverage, how a play works, where his one-on-one matchups are. He just has a tremendous football intellect that way.”" Lord_Saint83 likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

06-27-2021, 11:33 AM	#24
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Thirty3 In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't. Two thoughts 30: One is Rivers was drafted before Brees was hurt, so obviously the Charges has more worries about Brees than just his injury. Second, I never saw Winston smiling and laughing on the sidelines after throwing an Int. I did see Brooks do that. I don’t agree with the comparison. Just my opinion.

06-27-2021, 11:36 AM	#25
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Quoted the wrong post Thirty. Sorry.

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06-27-2021, 12:20 PM	#26
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,299 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Thirty3 In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't. Perspective is everything. Brees had one of the best RB's to ever play in the NFL in the backfield with him to start his career and a solid defense to boot. He didn't throw it all over the place to stay in games or win them. The Chargers felt that they couldn't pass on a big 6'5" QB when they picked early in the draft (due mostly to poor management of the team from the top down and not Drew Brees, though they made a scape goat out of Drew). SmashMouth and gosaints1 like this.

06-27-2021, 01:00 PM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Thirty3 In their respective first five starts, Winston won 28 games and Brees 40. QB is more than being able to pass or run. It is decision making, hard work, leadership, confidence, winning, etc. Not having those things will get you FIRED. Drew was never fired. Injury on a free agent year VOLUNTARILY LEFT. Obviously right choice for an injured QB whose team drafted Phillip Rivers because they weren't sure Drew could recover. Miami felt the same way. We didn't. Not sure where your version of history comes from ... BUT ... First, Philip Rivers was not drafted by the San Diego Chargers. He was drafted by the New York Giants. He was traded to the Chargers for San Diego's 1st round selection, Eli Manning. Secondly, Philip Rivers was acquired by the Chargers in 2004 and it had nothing to do with Brees' injury which occurred in the final game of the 2005 season. Third, Brees was offered an incentive laden contract to remain with the Chargers, but gambled on his potential to go elsewhere. It was not because they "weren't sure Drew could recover". And finally, Jameis Winston was not FIRED as you seem to claim. His contract expired and he was a free agent. He could have resigned with Tampa Bay for a deal similar to the one he agreed to with the Saints, but like Brees, he gambled on his potential to go elsewhere. Now he's looking at a starting gig with the most prolific offensive mind in the NFL. Boston Saint likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

06-27-2021, 01:03 PM	#28
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by iceshack149 Perspective is everything. Brees had one of the best RB's to ever play in the NFL in the backfield with him to start his career and a solid defense to boot. He didn't throw it all over the place to stay in games or win them. The Chargers felt that they couldn't pass on a big 6'5" QB when they picked early in the draft (due mostly to poor management of the team from the top down and not Drew Brees, though they made a scape goat out of Drew). Actually, the Chargers did pass on Philip Rivers in the 2004 draft. They selected Eli Manning, instead.

06-27-2021, 01:23 PM	#29
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Mannings were up front they didn't want Eli playing in San Diego because of the way that franchise was run - Lessons from Archie Manning's career ruined by John Mecom... San Diego knew this and were looking at Rivers also; still selected Manning knowing they'd get Rivers and picks to boot - Saving face, Salvaging a Disadvantaged Hand... Brees had been inconsistent at that point, even being benched for poor play; San Diego had a prototype in mind at QB, and Brees at 6' 0" wasn't it... gosaints1 likes this.

06-27-2021, 01:28 PM	#30
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Mannings were up front they didn't want Eli playing in San Diego because of the way that franchise was run - Lessons from Archie Manning's career ruined by John Mecom... San Diego knew this and were looking at Rivers also; still selected Manning knowing they'd get Rivers and picks to boot - Saving face, Salvaging a Disadvantaged Hand... Brees had been inconsistent at that point, even being benched for poor play; San Diego had a prototype in mind at QB, and Brees at 6' 0" wasn't it... Mismanagement and an inconsistent QB that hadn't reached his potential. Sounds a lot like Tampa Bay and Winston, doesn't it?