Mannings were up front they didn't want Eli playing in San Diego because of the way that franchise was run - Lessons from Archie Manning's career ruined by John Mecom...

San Diego knew this and were looking at Rivers also; still selected Manning knowing they'd get Rivers and picks to boot - Saving face, Salvaging a Disadvantaged Hand...

Brees had been inconsistent at that point, even being benched for poor play; San Diego had a prototype in mind at QB, and Brees at 6' 0" wasn't it...

Mismanagement and an inconsistent QB that hadn't reached his potential. Sounds a lot like Tampa Bay and Winston, doesn't it?

Mismanagement? #WTF?!?

Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl?

To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense.

So what percentage of influence would place on the outcome of victory based on QB play?

Because this discussion is about to get real interesting in seven months where no less than four other teams just changed their starting QBs...

Tom Brady's experience and poise was absolutely the difference in TB getting to and winning the SuperBowl; yes, a great defense was also necessary...

Something Sean Payton took years to figure out, accept after winning only one Superbowl and getting rid of the only competent D-coordinator he had at that point...

It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run:

1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team.

2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him.

3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own.

4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam.

Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was the deciding factor in their championship run.

Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam.

Mismanagement? #WTF?!?

Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl?

You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise.

Yeah, Bucs signed a better, proven quarterback that was available and won the Superbowl - Imagine That!