Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots

dizzle88 · 09-28-2021, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Week in week out? They've only played three weeks and he looked great week one in relief of McCoy. In week two the entire team was discombobulated with half the coaching staff missing and defensive holes everywhere. He looked really good all last season. It is a tad early to write him off as a first round failure, don't you think?

I mean he didn't look really good all last season, he basically ended Brees' career when he whiffed on a block.

Thirty3 · 09-28-2021, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by jnormand

After week 1, there was some media saying he was gonna be in the talk of MVP. Then that went away after week 2. Lol. I think right now he's gonna get the extremes from both sides by media.

For me, he's just blah so far. He's not making a lot of mistakes. But I haven't seen anything to make me believe he's gonna have a career year here either. Just my opinion bro.

Yes the media was building Winston up in the beginning. MVP etc. A year behind Brees, Coach Payton blah blah blah. NOW they have seen him. No change from Tampa. So most of them are jumping off the Winston bandwagon. Payton not giving him a chance to throw too many times is because he knows what that would mean. It is so boring to hear the "anyone who followed Brees would have a lot of criticism" etc. HONEST eyeball evaluation. "He is who he was". In the words of the great american philosopher Forest Gump, "You can't fix stupid." QB play REQUIRES cerebral play. We're not seeing it.

WW_Who_Dat · 09-28-2021, 04:39 PM

Never a JW fan with all the crap in his college and early Tampa days. Most of us certainly have things that we did during that period of our life that do not define us for the rest of our lives thankfully.

I think JW has matured and is a changed person from his earlier years.

His history in Tampa was not great but he never had the coaching he needed to learn the process of being and NFL QB and to effectively use his skill set and arm talent.

Again as I stated earlier, I was not a JW fan but also honest enough to know he was better than Terry Taysom or Drew if Drew choose to return this year.

So I see and hear him being critizised for throwing under a 200 yards a game for 3 games like he can’ throw or is not able to handle reading defenses. Let’s get real for a second, he threw for over 5000 yards in 2019 and had 2 seasons (2015-16) over 4000 yards and 1 season (2017) with 3500 yards. The man can throw the ball, he did throw 30 INT’s in 2019.

He’s not throwing ball more because SP’s game play calling is not asking for to throw more, not because JW can’t throw or carry an offense if needed. Brees in his prime could make just about any skill player with average skill look like an all pro. I venture to guess it’s SP that does not have the confidence level required in our current receivers to ask JW to pass the ball much more than currently being asked. Add an offensive line that is missing now 2 key starters and Ruiz in a position he did really spend any prep time this off-season and JW has not had much of a opportunity to get comfortable in the pocket.

Only a talent on Brees’s level could make the current offensive unit look average to respectable in the passing game. We need bodies and talent back before any legit call on JW an be made.

JW’s INT’s in game 2 did not lose the game the Panthers just kicked our butt on both sides of the ball.

Boston Saint · 09-28-2021, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Thirty3

Yes the media was building Winston up in the beginning. MVP etc. A year behind Brees, Coach Payton blah blah blah. NOW they have seen him. No change from Tampa. So most of them are jumping off the Winston bandwagon. Payton not giving him a chance to throw too many times is because he knows what that would mean. It is so boring to hear the "anyone who followed Brees would have a lot of criticism" etc. HONEST eyeball evaluation. "He is who he was". In the words of the great american philosopher Forest Gump, "You can't fix stupid." QB play REQUIRES cerebral play. We're not seeing it.

Sorry Thirty, I disagree. It’s not same old Tampa Winston. He’s being very cerebral in that he’s smart enough to not be throwing passes he shouldn’t for the most part. He’s thrown passes away and took sacks rather than toss it up. He’s on a 39 TD 11 INT pace. That’s hardly same old Tampa Jameis. And he’s not had a Godwin/Evans type WR combo to throw to. It’s only been three games (with a displaced team who has had COVID issues) but I see more maturity on his part. Time will tell.

Lord_Saint83 · 09-28-2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Sorry Thirty, I disagree. It’s not same old Tampa Winston. He’s being very cerebral in that he’s smart enough to be throwing passes he shouldn’t for the
most part. He’s thrown passes away and took sacks rather than toss it up. He’s on a 39 TD 11 INT pace. That’s hardly same old Tampa Jameis. And he’s not had a Godwin/Evans type WR combo to throw to. It’s only been three games (with a displaced team who has had COVID issues) but I see a more maturity on his part. Time will tell.

And to be fair Drew didn't start the year off in 2006 good either, neither did Teddy but once they settled in they rolled. It took them a few games. This is a complex offense. Drew wasn’t Drew till 2009 it took a couple years. Some are looking for a finished product when it’s still in its infancy

jeanpierre · 09-28-2021, 04:57 PM

How many games did an old, dead-armed Drew get to play with Michael Thomas last year?

AsylumGuido · 09-28-2021, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I mean he didn't look really good all last season, he basically ended Brees' career when he whiffed on a block.

The offensive line is a unit. One thing I have heard many times over the years from players and coaches alike is that a mistake by one lineman can reflect badly upon another. What we see as a "whiff" by one player on the line is very often that player trying to cover on a missed assignment by the man beside him. This can happen more frequently on a line in flux. That said, even the best of offensive linemen miss a block here or there that is his take. It happens and doesn't always happen in a planting of the QB.

Lord_Saint83 · 09-28-2021, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

How many games did an old, dead-armed Drew get to play with Michael Thomas last year?

He played in 7 games but he still had Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook. Those guys are better than what we got now

jeanpierre · 09-28-2021, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

He played in 7 games but he still had Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook. Those guys are better than what we got now

But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%...

And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble...

So really, was the WR position that much better last season?

We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan?

Lord_Saint83 · 09-28-2021, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%...

And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble...

So really, was the WR position that much better last season?

We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan?

Yea around 3 games. They used Sanders for the short and intermediate game when MT was out. It worked sorta but they weren’t playing to Sanders strengths which is stretching the field. Thomas wasn't 100% no doubt and he still lead the team in receptions and yards during Taysom’s start. Cook in all honesty was solid/good just that when he screwed up it was at the worst time. Since we don’t have much cash we gotta hope our homegrown talent will pan out in time as they get experience, mostly talking about Callaway. And it might take Stills a couple weeks to learn a good chunk of the playbook so he can be out there more often. I’m sure this is the defense approach to Roby as well

09-28-2021, 04:21 PM	#91
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Week in week out? They've only played three weeks and he looked great week one in relief of McCoy. In week two the entire team was discombobulated with half the coaching staff missing and defensive holes everywhere. He looked really good all last season. It is a tad early to write him off as a first round failure, don't you think? I mean he didn't look really good all last season, he basically ended Brees' career when he whiffed on a block. jeanpierre and K Major like this.

09-28-2021, 04:25 PM	#92
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jnormand After week 1, there was some media saying he was gonna be in the talk of MVP. Then that went away after week 2. Lol. I think right now he's gonna get the extremes from both sides by media. For me, he's just blah so far. He's not making a lot of mistakes. But I haven't seen anything to make me believe he's gonna have a career year here either. Just my opinion bro. Yes the media was building Winston up in the beginning. MVP etc. A year behind Brees, Coach Payton blah blah blah. NOW they have seen him. No change from Tampa. So most of them are jumping off the Winston bandwagon. Payton not giving him a chance to throw too many times is because he knows what that would mean. It is so boring to hear the "anyone who followed Brees would have a lot of criticism" etc. HONEST eyeball evaluation. "He is who he was". In the words of the great american philosopher Forest Gump, "You can't fix stupid." QB play REQUIRES cerebral play. We're not seeing it.
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255

09-28-2021, 04:39 PM	#93
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,275 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Never a JW fan with all the crap in his college and early Tampa days. Most of us certainly have things that we did during that period of our life that do not define us for the rest of our lives thankfully. I think JW has matured and is a changed person from his earlier years. His history in Tampa was not great but he never had the coaching he needed to learn the process of being and NFL QB and to effectively use his skill set and arm talent. Again as I stated earlier, I was not a JW fan but also honest enough to know he was better than Terry Taysom or Drew if Drew choose to return this year. So I see and hear him being critizised for throwing under a 200 yards a game for 3 games like he can’ throw or is not able to handle reading defenses. Let’s get real for a second, he threw for over 5000 yards in 2019 and had 2 seasons (2015-16) over 4000 yards and 1 season (2017) with 3500 yards. The man can throw the ball, he did throw 30 INT’s in 2019. He’s not throwing ball more because SP’s game play calling is not asking for to throw more, not because JW can’t throw or carry an offense if needed. Brees in his prime could make just about any skill player with average skill look like an all pro. I venture to guess it’s SP that does not have the confidence level required in our current receivers to ask JW to pass the ball much more than currently being asked. Add an offensive line that is missing now 2 key starters and Ruiz in a position he did really spend any prep time this off-season and JW has not had much of a opportunity to get comfortable in the pocket. Only a talent on Brees’s level could make the current offensive unit look average to respectable in the passing game. We need bodies and talent back before any legit call on JW an be made. JW’s INT’s in game 2 did not lose the game the Panthers just kicked our butt on both sides of the ball. Boston Saint likes this.

09-28-2021, 04:42 PM	#94
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Thirty3 Yes the media was building Winston up in the beginning. MVP etc. A year behind Brees, Coach Payton blah blah blah. NOW they have seen him. No change from Tampa. So most of them are jumping off the Winston bandwagon. Payton not giving him a chance to throw too many times is because he knows what that would mean. It is so boring to hear the "anyone who followed Brees would have a lot of criticism" etc. HONEST eyeball evaluation. "He is who he was". In the words of the great american philosopher Forest Gump, "You can't fix stupid." QB play REQUIRES cerebral play. We're not seeing it. Sorry Thirty, I disagree. It’s not same old Tampa Winston. He’s being very cerebral in that he’s smart enough to not be throwing passes he shouldn’t for the most part. He’s thrown passes away and took sacks rather than toss it up. He’s on a 39 TD 11 INT pace. That’s hardly same old Tampa Jameis. And he’s not had a Godwin/Evans type WR combo to throw to. It’s only been three games (with a displaced team who has had COVID issues) but I see more maturity on his part. Time will tell. leilung, AsylumGuido, K Major and 2 others like this.
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09-28-2021, 04:50 PM	#95
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Boston Saint Sorry Thirty, I disagree. It’s not same old Tampa Winston. He’s being very cerebral in that he’s smart enough to be throwing passes he shouldn’t for the most part. He’s thrown passes away and took sacks rather than toss it up. He’s on a 39 TD 11 INT pace. That’s hardly same old Tampa Jameis. And he’s not had a Godwin/Evans type WR combo to throw to. It’s only been three games (with a displaced team who has had COVID issues) but I see a more maturity on his part. Time will tell. And to be fair Drew didn't start the year off in 2006 good either, neither did Teddy but once they settled in they rolled. It took them a few games. This is a complex offense. Drew wasn’t Drew till 2009 it took a couple years. Some are looking for a finished product when it’s still in its infancy AsylumGuido, SmashMouth, K Major and 2 others like this.

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09-28-2021, 04:57 PM	#96
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots How many games did an old, dead-armed Drew get to play with Michael Thomas last year?

09-28-2021, 05:02 PM	#97
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,492	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by dizzle88 I mean he didn't look really good all last season, he basically ended Brees' career when he whiffed on a block. The offensive line is a unit. One thing I have heard many times over the years from players and coaches alike is that a mistake by one lineman can reflect badly upon another. What we see as a "whiff" by one player on the line is very often that player trying to cover on a missed assignment by the man beside him. This can happen more frequently on a line in flux. That said, even the best of offensive linemen miss a block here or there that is his take. It happens and doesn't always happen in a planting of the QB.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

09-28-2021, 05:27 PM	#99
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 He played in 7 games but he still had Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook. Those guys are better than what we got now But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%... And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble... So really, was the WR position that much better last season? We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan? jnormand and SmashMouth like this.

09-28-2021, 05:51 PM	#100
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Observations from the Saints' Win over the Patriots Originally Posted by jeanpierre But how many games did Drew get to play with Thomas? Taysom got four of them even if Thomas wasn't 100%... And we were all remarking that Brees wasn't able to air it out to Sanders. Cook only made a catch when defenses weren't respecting Cook, and then he'd fumble... So really, was the WR position that much better last season? We've got Stills now, so what's it gonna take to get him acclimated, included in the offensive game plan? Yea around 3 games. They used Sanders for the short and intermediate game when MT was out. It worked sorta but they weren’t playing to Sanders strengths which is stretching the field. Thomas wasn't 100% no doubt and he still lead the team in receptions and yards during Taysom’s start. Cook in all honesty was solid/good just that when he screwed up it was at the worst time. Since we don’t have much cash we gotta hope our homegrown talent will pan out in time as they get experience, mostly talking about Callaway. And it might take Stills a couple weeks to learn a good chunk of the playbook so he can be out there more often. I’m sure this is the defense approach to Roby as well
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