Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I’m surprised Roby isn’t starting, but I’m not mad at Adebo. He’s a rookie for one, but he played okay. It’s not the “worse game ever” like I saw people say. It’s like y’all forgot about Jason David, Fred Thomas, P.J. Williams, and Ken Crawley. The kid looks really good, but hopping all over him after one down game where the offense really failed us isn’t the move. Sean Payton left a lot of points on the board.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Dumb challenges, kicking 55+ yarders, inability to call timeouts to avoid delay of game penalties, etc, etc.

After Sean and his coaching staff rewatch the game film, they need to call out themselves. All of the coaches sucked today.[/QUOTE]
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So the truth in all this may have bubbled to the surface. There is another Coach who is gone and it appears that the clock hands are running backwards. Since Coach Payton has been here so has Coach Brees, well as we know Brees is gone. Compare it to running a Hook and Ladder. You have your front Driver and rear Driver, that truck won't run with one driver. Especially when a driving team has worked together for a long time.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Right now we are what our record says we are.

Average.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

No issue with Adebo
The kids a 3rd round rookie, of course hes a raw talent.

The offense stinks, its dysfunctional. There looks a complete lack of trust in Winston, little to no separation outside of Harris. The playcalling has been terrible. Letting Hill try a deep ball on that interception was crazy, it was a awful pass, if he leads Harris and puts the ball tp Harris right side and ahead of him he walks into the endzobe.

The complete lack of pressure from the defensive line killed the secondary as much as anything tonight.


Once again like the mid 2010s too good for pick in the top 8, but won't make the playoffs

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I for one am not going to be calling out CSP for sticking with the run. We've been asking him to do so since the Super Bowl, if not earlier. Now he is finally doing it, and people left and right are giving him heat for it. Despite the loss, I think we've got to stay the course with the running game. Kamara has been in a groove. The defense just needs to work on some things after this stinker. As long as we work hard during the week and stay away from any and all urges to let Taysom throw a deep ball, we'll be fine.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

-Horrible loss.
-Loss of Payton and the defense.
-Passing on a distance friendly kick and attempting a 58 yarder. 10 point swing.
-Giant receivers running wide open. No pass rush.
-Trautman looks like backup NFL talent at best.
-Rojas should have been cut last week.
-Great effort by Kamara, Hill and Harris.
-Montgomey with a couple big catches.
-Winston throws a great deep ball.
-I expect a bounce back next week against a better team than they faced today.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

My only issue with Adebo is that he doesn’t break up any passes.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

My thoughts exactly, on every reception most of the throws have been perfect. Small windows to fit the ball. He needs to work on locating the ball and getting a hand on it. The Ross TD, he’s there. I have more of a gripe with Williams on that play. You’re the deepest man and in a trail position.
Adebo will be alright. It’s not like we’re seeing a Jason David, Toi Cook, Fred Thomas type of play out of him.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Well... I think we're all disappointed with the outcome yesterday.

SP stopped by the meat counter yesterday after the game. I asked him WTF was he thinking with some of his decisions? You can just imagine what he said.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Lol. 2nd half JW was playing with poise, confidence & rhythm, yet CSP wanted to deviate from the game plan and insert Taysom with these ridiculous punt throws & costly ints. Using TH in the red zone I get but pulling a QB in rhythm to get cute (see 3rd and 1) makes no sense. Never liked it when he would pull Brees for these predictable plays either. INSANITY.

Did you ask him about the ZERO TARGETS for Kamara? ZERO on your most lethal weapon on offense.

His EGO is taking L's on Sundays.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

There’s a play that needs to be eliminated ASAP. Taysom comes at QB and you split Jameis or Drew out wide. Waste of a blocker and play maker. I’ve seen that play run at least a dozen times.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

As SP would say.... watch your meat. :bng:

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I think I’m still in my feelings at coach regarding his play calling as far back as the Rams NFCCG loss.
Bringing TommyLL in on that critical play in the game. I’m not surprised TLL didn’t get that call. AK Gets that call. He’d throw a fit and his hands up in the air. Giving the refs no option but to do what should have been done.
What did TLL do. Bounce up and casually trot to the sideline, where he should have been anyway.
My whole point in bring this up is to say. Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Defense:
I think this was the first game we played a majority of zone coverage, and we got beat every time we played it. It wasn't just a single player on D, it was across the whole team. Both CBs got beat and caught guessing in zone situations, the LBs got baited into the wrong target while playing zone. Worst yet, Allen didn't make adjustments, bland play calling with limited blitzing and some of the most boring play calls I have seen. Defensive players didn't lose this one, poor play calling lost this game.

Offense:
Payton may have called one of his worst games today, and the season as a whole is showing he has no confidence in Winston. He feels he must shelter Winston from throwing bad balls, so rather than teach and coach him, Payton calls such conservative plays Winston doesn't have options down field.
Then finally, they open the playbook at the end of the half and through the 3rd QTR, and we come up with 21 easy points. Of course good ole Payton, rather than keep your foot on their throat you back off once your trick play (that everyone knows) backfires.
Payton can eat this L, from poor play calling to bad calls with kicking FGs, not pushing your DC to adjust and pulling out your gadget play that never works resulting in a turnover and flipping all momentum. It's all on Payton.

The 2 games we have lost, both had poor coaching written all over them.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I’d tell him I’ve got someone to do that for me.
And that’s the arrogance of coach.
Yes, he’s the coach and it’s only a game. But for people like me, I’ve invested a good part of my time and life loving this game. So much so, that it’s more than a game now. No turning back. It’s a way of life.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

That's been my argument for a while too. In that huge spot, Payton ignores a guy with an NFL record 150 catches and maybe the best receiving running back in the NFL today, and calls a play for Tommy Lee freaking Lewis. Wtf.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

You know the story by now with Sean leaving yo-yos in all the lockers. The idea they say is to make sure they're not an up and down team, win one lose one, all season long.

Sounds like Sean already knows what he has. At the moment we're .500. Survive a couple more weeks like this, get some players back, maybe let Jameis play a little and we might have some fun this year. Get used to being a wildcard contender.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

It was bad coaching that lost us this game. Bad coaching from Payton from the game plan forward. Hill rushing out side of the red zone is getting old. I'm tired of seeing Hill getting shut down after Payton pulls Winston when he's getting hot. I'd prefer to see Hill rusing only inside the 10 yard line where he seems much more effective. Also, he's never going to be a passer.

Payton needs to stop micromanaging Winston. It's time to take the blinders off the race horse to find out if he's any good. Winston looks gun shy out there. He doesn't want to be in Payton's sights after a bad play. Winston isn't turning over the ball but he's not winning games for us either.

What is up with Payton's love affair with short receievers on critical 3rd downs? TLL and Harris aren't going to win many jump balls. Which leads me to saying it's on Payton for not bringing in more capable receivers. We've got a bunch of UDFA's and someone who was out of the league playing Lacrosse last year.

I'm not impressed with Trautman and I believed in him last year. He passed the eye test. This year he just looks slow. I wonder it was because of his injury in training camp? He's looks lost and is getting no seperation. Johnson is what he is, which is a converted UDFA converting to TE that has potential.

I have to check the roster when I look at the defensive line. I swear I don't even know who some of these guys are. More UDFA's!:brood:

DA has never been a favorite of mine. He doesn't make in game adjustments well and he never has. He has to have a lead or he crumbles under pressure. He also has to have top tier talent to make his schemes work. He doen't know how to creatively use his players to get the best out of him. Zone was killing us all day. We are best when playing man. It won't work all the time but you can't just completely stop using it. He did a crappy job of coaching and so did Payton.

We should have won the game but we didn't. That's all on coaching.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Lots of plays could have won that game. But that Hill long pass/interception was the dagger/turning point IMO. Stupid call. Worse throw. The very type of throw Winston had been avoiding (and getting crap for avoiding) Hill comes in and commits. EAT THAT BALL! NO WAY DO YOU THROW THAT PASS! WTF is
wrong with you? Winston had just hit another beautiful deep ball, and rather than going back to the grind, you get cute. Went from elation to deflation in about 15 seconds of game clock.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

"Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team".
How can you say this.. after all this Man is an Offensive Genius..
or maybe it's back to the good ole days.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play.

This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense.

Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

We have a sh**ty backup kicker ... So why would pass up on a 45 yarder but attempted a 59 yd fg? And the Taysom Hill Hail Mary's - bad football. It's not helping.

Bizarre coaching on yesterday.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I agree, but grind it football has worked in a few games if stuck with so far. Saints win that game without the Hill Int and/or better decisions on when to kick field goals. If they grind it out and stay consistent and win, it’s all good. It’s when they try to mix a few things in at weird times is that I start to question.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I think Payton’s ego has and will doom this team. Not saying he has to go or nothing. But he needs to practice what he preaches and do his job

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

He does have an ego. Of course I would think that ego would stir him to win with Winston as a response to Bruce A letting him move on. It still can be done. His deep balls (no jokes please) and his TD pass to the TE were great throws. Even JP mentioned he threaded a couple throws.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I'd like to see more of this ("9" - go route & post corner) in the weeks ahead. Keep defenses honest & a perfectly thrown pass. I cringed when Callaway got up limping though :(...

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I truly believe our defense has its on identity. At the same time they feed off the success of the offense. The D started playing Sh!!?ty right after Trautman’s hold/tackle call. The INT just doused the teams fire.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I'm okay with Kamara not being involved in the passing game since his carry count was heavy, especially with Jones going out. Harris can pose the speed thread in the flats and did that job nicely yesterday.

Like others, I am definitely becoming more opposed to Taysom coming in at QB except as the goal-to-go running threat. Taysom did a nice job at TE yesterday with good yards after catch. He can also block well as a TE/H-back. We are making enough of use of Taysom as it stands and need to keep Winston in the game at QB until the situations come up where it's goal-to-go and want to finish off the drive with QB power.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Keep in mind we have two of the highest paid players for their positions in Kamara and Thomas. Stands to reason those two guys should get the bulk of the touches.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

The only load Thomas is taking right now is money to the bank.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Lol, no jokes either but his deep ball is honestly better now prolly cause of his lasik surgery. The long balls he's been throwing from preseason to regular season have been things of beauty. To where he is not overthrowing the receiver or under throwing them and putting it to where only his guy can get it. Not saying to open up the entire playbook but open it up more. Where’s the jet sweeps, QB rollouts, misdirection, etc. And also more play action which Jameis is really good at.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

That is sad but I'm told I need to let it go. I can't though because it was so damn irresponsible. I'm still pissed off because with Thomas we would be able to play a different game and possibly win more games. We didn't bring in a receiver during the offseason because we didn't think it was such a top priority.smh

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

- Winston played an excellent game given what he was allowed to do through the offense.

- The offensive line held up nicely and really opened some holes in the run game and did a pretty decent job in pass pro.

- Almost no real pressure from our rush and that was never addressed. You can't keep rushing your base four when they abandon the run completely in the 4th and start going five wide. You have to really mix it up. Either rush three and blanket or bring five to get some pressure.

- Untimely penalties kept NY in the game.

- The penalty on the Winston TD bomb that wasn't was a killer.

- The decision to bring in Hill and throw a deep one was beyond stupid given Winston was in a groove.

- Keep Hill doing what he does best --- anything but trying to be an NFL QB! That pass was a backbreaker. It was underthrown ... into double coverage ... to our shortest receiver ... with a CB that had six inches on him.

- The decision to go for the 58 yard FG instead of punting put undue pressure on the defense that had been performing nicely up to that point. The short field score by the Giants really seemed to deflate the defense's bravado.

- I felt the secondary got a little full of themselves up 21-10 and lost some intensity. Missed tackles added up in that 4th quarter.

- I repeat, Taysom Hill is one of the most impactful players on our roster ... WHEN NOT PLAYING QB! Argh!!!

- I felt like the game was ultimately decided by the overtime coin flip. Before it occurred I thought to myself that the winner of the toss was going to drive for a TD and win at that point.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I doubt any of our receivers would be in the 1,2, or even 3
spots on any other NFL Team. Same with the tight ends. Outside of Kamara Payton and Winston don’t have a whole hell of a lot to work with hence the predictable stale offense. Thomas getting back will help but probably not enough. Taysom needs to be in all the time and not at Qb.

Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants
 

I think you are underestimating Tre'Quan Smith's absence. His return will kick things up a notch, as well. Thomas, Smith, Callaway, Harris, and Stills can be very formidable.

But agree completely on Taysom.