Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants

dizzle88 · 10-04-2021, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by cmike

I think I’m still in my feelings at coach regarding his play calling as far back as the Rams NFCCG loss.
Bringing TommyLL in on that critical play in the game. I’m not surprised TLL didn’t get that call. AK Gets that call. He’d throw a fit and his hands up in the air. Giving the refs no option but to do what should have been done.
What did TLL do. Bounce up and casually trot to the sideline, where he should have been anyway.
My whole point in bring this up is to say. Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team.

That's been my argument for a while too. In that huge spot, Payton ignores a guy with an NFL record 150 catches and maybe the best receiving running back in the NFL today, and calls a play for Tommy Lee freaking Lewis. Wtf.

K Major · 10-04-2021, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by cmike

I think I’m still in my feelings at coach regarding his play calling as far back as the Rams NFCCG loss.
Bringing TommyLL in on that critical play in the game. I’m not surprised TLL didn’t get that call. AK Gets that call. He’d throw a fit and his hands up in the air. Giving the refs no option but to do what should have been done.
What did TLL do. Bounce up and casually trot to the sideline, where he should have been anyway.
My whole point in bring this up is to say. Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team.

blackangold · 10-04-2021, 11:00 AM

Defense:
I think this was the first game we played a majority of zone coverage, and we got beat every time we played it. It wasn't just a single player on D, it was across the whole team. Both CBs got beat and caught guessing in zone situations, the LBs got baited into the wrong target while playing zone. Worst yet, Allen didn't make adjustments, bland play calling with limited blitzing and some of the most boring play calls I have seen. Defensive players didn't lose this one, poor play calling lost this game.

Offense:
Payton may have called one of his worst games today, and the season as a whole is showing he has no confidence in Winston. He feels he must shelter Winston from throwing bad balls, so rather than teach and coach him, Payton calls such conservative plays Winston doesn't have options down field.
Then finally, they open the playbook at the end of the half and through the 3rd QTR, and we come up with 21 easy points. Of course good ole Payton, rather than keep your foot on their throat you back off once your trick play (that everyone knows) backfires.
Payton can eat this L, from poor play calling to bad calls with kicking FGs, not pushing your DC to adjust and pulling out your gadget play that never works resulting in a turnover and flipping all momentum. It's all on Payton.

The 2 games we have lost, both had poor coaching written all over them.

saintfan · 10-04-2021, 11:23 AM

You know the story by now with Sean leaving yo-yos in all the lockers. The idea they say is to make sure they're not an up and down team, win one lose one, all season long.

Sounds like Sean already knows what he has. At the moment we're .500. Survive a couple more weeks like this, get some players back, maybe let Jameis play a little and we might have some fun this year. Get used to being a wildcard contender.

Rugby Saint II · 10-04-2021, 11:41 AM

It was bad coaching that lost us this game. Bad coaching from Payton from the game plan forward. Hill rushing out side of the red zone is getting old. I'm tired of seeing Hill getting shut down after Payton pulls Winston when he's getting hot. I'd prefer to see Hill rusing only inside the 10 yard line where he seems much more effective. Also, he's never going to be a passer.

Payton needs to stop micromanaging Winston. It's time to take the blinders off the race horse to find out if he's any good. Winston looks gun shy out there. He doesn't want to be in Payton's sights after a bad play. Winston isn't turning over the ball but he's not winning games for us either.

What is up with Payton's love affair with short receievers on critical 3rd downs? TLL and Harris aren't going to win many jump balls. Which leads me to saying it's on Payton for not bringing in more capable receivers. We've got a bunch of UDFA's and someone who was out of the league playing Lacrosse last year.

I'm not impressed with Trautman and I believed in him last year. He passed the eye test. This year he just looks slow. I wonder it was because of his injury in training camp? He's looks lost and is getting no seperation. Johnson is what he is, which is a converted UDFA converting to TE that has potential.

I have to check the roster when I look at the defensive line. I swear I don't even know who some of these guys are. More UDFA's!

DA has never been a favorite of mine. He doesn't make in game adjustments well and he never has. He has to have a lead or he crumbles under pressure. He also has to have top tier talent to make his schemes work. He doen't know how to creatively use his players to get the best out of him. Zone was killing us all day. We are best when playing man. It won't work all the time but you can't just completely stop using it. He did a crappy job of coaching and so did Payton.

We should have won the game but we didn't. That's all on coaching.

Boston Saint · 10-04-2021, 11:57 AM

Lots of plays could have won that game. But that Hill long pass/interception was the dagger/turning point IMO. Stupid call. Worse throw. The very type of throw Winston had been avoiding (and getting crap for avoiding) Hill comes in and commits. EAT THAT BALL! NO WAY DO YOU THROW THAT PASS! WTF is
wrong with you? Winston had just hit another beautiful deep ball, and rather than going back to the grind, you get cute. Went from elation to deflation in about 15 seconds of game clock.

RailBoss · 10-04-2021, 12:05 PM

"Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team".
How can you say this.. after all this Man is an Offensive Genius..
or maybe it's back to the good ole days.

dizzle88 · 10-04-2021, 12:23 PM

It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play.

This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense.

Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed.

Boston Saint · 10-04-2021, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play.

This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense.

Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed.

I agree, but grind it football has worked in a few games if stuck with so far. Saints win that game without the Hill Int and/or better decisions on when to kick field goals. If they grind it out and stay consistent and win, it’s all good. It’s when they try to mix a few things in at weird times is that I start to question.

RailBoss · 10-04-2021, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play.

This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense.

Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed.

Kind of a shame Joe Lombardi isn't still here, he would have helped Jameis and Company tremendously.

10-04-2021, 11:14 AM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,541	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Originally Posted by cmike I think I’m still in my feelings at coach regarding his play calling as far back as the Rams NFCCG loss. Bringing TommyLL in on that critical play in the game. I’m not surprised TLL didn’t get that call. AK Gets that call. He’d throw a fit and his hands up in the air. Giving the refs no option but to do what should have been done. What did TLL do. Bounce up and casually trot to the sideline, where he should have been anyway. My whole point in bring this up is to say. Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team. That's been my argument for a while too. In that huge spot, Payton ignores a guy with an NFL record 150 catches and maybe the best receiving running back in the NFL today, and calls a play for Tommy Lee freaking Lewis. Wtf. cmike likes this.

10-04-2021, 11:27 AM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Originally Posted by cmike I think I’m still in my feelings at coach regarding his play calling as far back as the Rams NFCCG loss. Bringing TommyLL in on that critical play in the game. I’m not surprised TLL didn’t get that call. AK Gets that call. He’d throw a fit and his hands up in the air. Giving the refs no option but to do what should have been done. What did TLL do. Bounce up and casually trot to the sideline, where he should have been anyway. My whole point in bring this up is to say. Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team. rezburna likes this.

10-04-2021, 11:00 AM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Defense: I think this was the first game we played a majority of zone coverage, and we got beat every time we played it. It wasn't just a single player on D, it was across the whole team. Both CBs got beat and caught guessing in zone situations, the LBs got baited into the wrong target while playing zone. Worst yet, Allen didn't make adjustments, bland play calling with limited blitzing and some of the most boring play calls I have seen. Defensive players didn't lose this one, poor play calling lost this game. Offense: Payton may have called one of his worst games today, and the season as a whole is showing he has no confidence in Winston. He feels he must shelter Winston from throwing bad balls, so rather than teach and coach him, Payton calls such conservative plays Winston doesn't have options down field. Then finally, they open the playbook at the end of the half and through the 3rd QTR, and we come up with 21 easy points. Of course good ole Payton, rather than keep your foot on their throat you back off once your trick play (that everyone knows) backfires. Payton can eat this L, from poor play calling to bad calls with kicking FGs, not pushing your DC to adjust and pulling out your gadget play that never works resulting in a turnover and flipping all momentum. It's all on Payton. The 2 games we have lost, both had poor coaching written all over them. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

10-04-2021, 11:23 AM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants You know the story by now with Sean leaving yo-yos in all the lockers. The idea they say is to make sure they're not an up and down team, win one lose one, all season long. Sounds like Sean already knows what he has. At the moment we're .500. Survive a couple more weeks like this, get some players back, maybe let Jameis play a little and we might have some fun this year. Get used to being a wildcard contender.

10-04-2021, 11:41 AM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,179	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants It was bad coaching that lost us this game. Bad coaching from Payton from the game plan forward. Hill rushing out side of the red zone is getting old. I'm tired of seeing Hill getting shut down after Payton pulls Winston when he's getting hot. I'd prefer to see Hill rusing only inside the 10 yard line where he seems much more effective. Also, he's never going to be a passer. Payton needs to stop micromanaging Winston. It's time to take the blinders off the race horse to find out if he's any good. Winston looks gun shy out there. He doesn't want to be in Payton's sights after a bad play. Winston isn't turning over the ball but he's not winning games for us either. What is up with Payton's love affair with short receievers on critical 3rd downs? TLL and Harris aren't going to win many jump balls. Which leads me to saying it's on Payton for not bringing in more capable receivers. We've got a bunch of UDFA's and someone who was out of the league playing Lacrosse last year. I'm not impressed with Trautman and I believed in him last year. He passed the eye test. This year he just looks slow. I wonder it was because of his injury in training camp? He's looks lost and is getting no seperation. Johnson is what he is, which is a converted UDFA converting to TE that has potential. I have to check the roster when I look at the defensive line. I swear I don't even know who some of these guys are. More UDFA's! DA has never been a favorite of mine. He doesn't make in game adjustments well and he never has. He has to have a lead or he crumbles under pressure. He also has to have top tier talent to make his schemes work. He doen't know how to creatively use his players to get the best out of him. Zone was killing us all day. We are best when playing man. It won't work all the time but you can't just completely stop using it. He did a crappy job of coaching and so did Payton. We should have won the game but we didn't. That's all on coaching. K Major, rezburna, Lord_Saint83 and 1 others like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

10-04-2021, 11:57 AM	#6
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Lots of plays could have won that game. But that Hill long pass/interception was the dagger/turning point IMO. Stupid call. Worse throw. The very type of throw Winston had been avoiding (and getting crap for avoiding) Hill comes in and commits. EAT THAT BALL! NO WAY DO YOU THROW THAT PASS! WTF is wrong with you? Winston had just hit another beautiful deep ball, and rather than going back to the grind, you get cute. Went from elation to deflation in about 15 seconds of game clock. Rsanders24, Rugby Saint II, cmike and 2 others like this.

10-04-2021, 12:05 PM	#7
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants "Stop being so cute and trying to reinvent the game of football. It’s costing this team". How can you say this.. after all this Man is an Offensive Genius.. or maybe it's back to the good ole days. Attached Thumbnails Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-04-2021, 12:23 PM	#8
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,541	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play. This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense. Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed. RailBoss, SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.

10-04-2021, 12:33 PM	#9
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Originally Posted by dizzle88 It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play. This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense. Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed. I agree, but grind it football has worked in a few games if stuck with so far. Saints win that game without the Hill Int and/or better decisions on when to kick field goals. If they grind it out and stay consistent and win, it’s all good. It’s when they try to mix a few things in at weird times is that I start to question. Rugby Saint II and dizzle88 like this.

10-04-2021, 10:47 PM	#10
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: Observation From the Saints' Loss to the Giants Originally Posted by dizzle88 It's as if Payton thinks Winston is so fragile, that if he opens the offense up and he throws a few picks, his confidence will crumble. If that's the case, then Winston shouldn't be starting, but until proven otherwise, you have to take the Training Wheels off Winston and let him play. This game manager scenario is putting too much pressure on Kamara and a young defense. Open the freaking playbook up and see if Winston can actually succeed. Kind of a shame Joe Lombardi isn't still here, he would have helped Jameis and Company tremendously.

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