Why Book is the man for the job

AsylumGuido · 11-21-2021, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

There is also the GM aspect of this whole thing. We've been using a roster spot on him all year - because we didn't go through the practice squad transaction and risk losing him to another team.

If we had enough confidence to sacrifice a roster spot for him thus far, we should have enough faith in him to start a game. He might not be as ready as they'd like, but too bad ... we are in a league where Cooper Rush, Mike White, Tim Boyle and Mason Rudolph have started games this year. There is no need to walk on eggshells.

Siemian is our Rush, White, Boyle, and Rudolph.

saintfan · 11-21-2021, 06:18 PM

neugey · 11-21-2021, 06:47 PM

List of recent rookie QB's put into action who have been competent or better:
Mac Jones
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Gardner Minshew
Tua Tagavaloia
Jalen Hurts (you can debate his pedigree, and I hesitated to list him, but he's beat us twice now)
Kyler Murray
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson

So do we trust our scouting, or not?

AsylumGuido · 11-21-2021, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

List of recent rookie QB's put into action who have been competent or better:
Mac Jones
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Gardner Minshew
Tua Tagavaloia
Jalen Hurts (you can debate his pedigree, and I hesitated to list him, but he's beat us twice now)
Kyler Murray
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson

So do we trust our scouting, or not?

Most of those were drafted to start right away. All but Hurts and Minshew were drafted in the first round. Book was drafted to someday maybe have a chance after development.

neugey · 11-21-2021, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Most of those were drafted to start right away. All but Hurts and Minshew were drafted in the first round. Book was drafted to someday maybe have a chance after development.

There's no possible argument that Book is a "project" QB and needs this additional "development" you are alluding to. He's the all-time winningest QB in Irish history. Plenty of starts under his belt and lots of big game experience. He played in 45 games in college ... the same number Drew Brees played in at Purdue. Maybe not as many pass attempts as Drew, but Ian played in a pro-style offense at a high level and Coach Kelly did a fine job getting him ready. This is a rookie with pedigree.

Was Book a product of an Irish system - is he fools' gold? Definitely not. The QB situation before and now after him has been a big adventure - Book however, was a stalwart with great confidence and low turnovers.

Book just doesn't have the howitzer arm strength that makes the NFL scouts/experts jizz themselves and spend a first/second round pick. Neither did Brees; luckily Brees had the Rose Bowl W and bigger passing stats working for him.

Does it suck being in this situation losing Jameis to injury and having Taysom so banged up - Yes!
Does it make sense to keep starting a very marginal and limited Siemian out of "rookie phobia" - No!

Sometimes circumstances change and you need to take the next step with a rookie QB a little sooner than you planned. Ask the coach from Baltimore if he thinks he made the wrong decision a few years ago. Now, Book is no Lamar Jackson, but he certainly could be a starter in the mold of Jake Plummer, Rich Gannon, Tony Romo or Jeff Garcia - and possibly better. If Book is the incarnation of any of those four, he'd be a sight for sore eyes compared to what we have right now!

AsylumGuido · 11-22-2021, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

There's no possible argument that Book is a "project" QB and needs this additional "development" you are alluding to. He's the all-time winningest QB in Irish history. Plenty of starts under his belt and lots of big game experience. He played in 45 games in college ... the same number Drew Brees played in at Purdue. Maybe not as many pass attempts as Drew, but Ian played in a pro-style offense at a high level and Coach Kelly did a fine job getting him ready. This is a rookie with pedigree.

Was Book a product of an Irish system - is he fools' gold? Definitely not. The QB situation before and now after him has been a big adventure - Book however, was a stalwart with great confidence and low turnovers.

Book just doesn't have the howitzer arm strength that makes the NFL scouts/experts jizz themselves and spend a first/second round pick. Neither did Brees; luckily Brees had the Rose Bowl W and bigger passing stats working for him.

Does it suck being in this situation losing Jameis to injury and having Taysom so banged up - Yes!
Does it make sense to keep starting a very marginal and limited Siemian out of "rookie phobia" - No!

Sometimes circumstances change and you need to take the next step with a rookie QB a little sooner than you planned. Ask the coach from Baltimore if he thinks he made the wrong decision a few years ago. Now, Book is no Lamar Jackson, but he certainly could be a starter in the mold of Jake Plummer, Rich Gannon, Tony Romo or Jeff Garcia - and possibly better. If Book is the incarnation of any of those four, he'd be a sight for sore eyes compared to what we have right now!

I take it you are a Notre Dame fan. Admittedly I really don't follow college football hardly at all beyond NC State, but I had never heard of Ian Book until we drafted him. It doesn't seem as though the front office sees him as more than a project at this point and I trust their judgement since their goal is to win games, not to see what we have. Early in the season a caller asked former Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis about Book and Weis said he likes Book a lot, but added that Book is no where near prepared to take snaps in an NFL game, but may be at some point in the future and that would be at some point beyond this season or the next when the caller asked when.

neugey · 11-22-2021, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I take it you are a Notre Dame fan. Admittedly I really don't follow college football hardly at all beyond NC State, but I had never heard of Ian Book until we drafted him. It doesn't seem as though the front office sees him as more than a project at this point and I trust their judgement since their goal is to win games, not to see what we have. Early in the season a caller asked former Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis about Book and Weis said he likes Book a lot, but added that Book is no where near prepared to take snaps in an NFL game, but may be at some point in the future and that would be at some point beyond this season or the next when the caller asked when.

Not a Notre Dame fan. Just watching college football over the last few years and Book really caught my eye, and over time my belief in Book has grown - with that win over Clemson being a real high point. Yes my belief in Book is a little irrational ... it's something that cannot be really explained.

Looking back, this has only happened to me with one other player - Nick Van Exel. Similar situation - saw the Cincinnati games and Van Exel popped off the screen and before long I could not shake this strong feeling that this was exactly the guard the Lakers needed to help them win (or at least keep them out of the basement) in the post-Magic era. Lo and behold Jerry West and the Lakers also saw the sleeper potential in Van Exel and stole him in the second round. From there, "Nick at Nite" Van Exel became a starter and showed clutch ability and for a period of years kept the Lakers competitive and close to .500, even if not quite playoff caliber. Without him, the Lakers would have been cellar dwellars.

Feel very much the same way about Book - a gigantic hunch that Book is destined to be a very good player and like Van Exel it is serendipity that my pro team drafted him. And we are in a better spot personnel and coaching wise than those 90's Lakers - I think he has what it takes to the continue the winning tradition Brees established, albeit with a different style of play.

Whenever Book gets his chance to shine I think you will all see how great of a fit he will be. Especially if Payton calls plays to his strengths and we do a lot more QB rollout and moving the pocket. It will reinvigorate our offense. Pretty sure I'll be asking for a Book jersey for Christmas regardless of how this goes.

leilung · 11-21-2021, 09:31 PM

Is this even a conversation to have now? That is, unless we are admitting that this team has zero chance to get into post season play in the 2021 season? I can't really see the point in 'we have other guys so let's see what we have' with project personnel unless means that starting him makes this team better for this season. Period.

Obviously, the coaches don't see enough to want to pull the trigger on that option... yet.

saintfan · 11-21-2021, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

Is this even a conversation to have now? That is, unless we are admitting that this team has zero chance to get into post season play in the 2021 season? I can't really see the point in 'we have other guys so let's see what we have' with project personnel unless means that starting him makes this team better for this season. Period.

Obviously, the coaches don't see enough to want to pull the trigger on that option... yet.

For lots of reasons I'd bet Trevor is our starter, but I'm all for giving the kid a shot. We're .500. By the time we see the Jets my bet is we're still looking for our 6th win. It is what it is. Given our inability to pass the ball all season, let the kid play.

Playoffs? Its not a one to one, forgive me, but this is where my brain is right now...

Jim Mora Saints rant (better quality) - YouTube

neugey · 11-21-2021, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

Is this even a conversation to have now? That is, unless we are admitting that this team has zero chance to get into post season play in the 2021 season? I can't really see the point in 'we have other guys so let's see what we have' with project personnel unless means that starting him makes this team better for this season. Period.

Obviously, the coaches don't see enough to want to pull the trigger on that option... yet.

If we wait until it's too late and the postseason hopes are toast, then we could run into a situation where we look back and wonder what could have been if we just handed Book the reigns in week 11 or 12.

No one in their right mind sees Siemian leading us to a playoff win. Book at least gives us a chance if he provides a spark. Taysom too possibly, if he can manage to get healthy enough.

Need to give up the ghost on Siemian. We're handicapping ourselves.

11-21-2021, 06:33 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by neugey There is also the GM aspect of this whole thing. We've been using a roster spot on him all year - because we didn't go through the practice squad transaction and risk losing him to another team. If we had enough confidence to sacrifice a roster spot for him thus far, we should have enough faith in him to start a game. He might not be as ready as they'd like, but too bad ... we are in a league where Cooper Rush, Mike White, Tim Boyle and Mason Rudolph have started games this year. There is no need to walk on eggshells. Siemian is our Rush, White, Boyle, and Rudolph.

11-21-2021, 06:18 PM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Why Book is the man for the job iceshack149, RailBoss, leilung and 1 others like this.

11-21-2021, 06:47 PM	#3
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,820 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Why Book is the man for the job List of recent rookie QB's put into action who have been competent or better: Mac Jones Joe Burrow Justin Herbert Gardner Minshew Tua Tagavaloia Jalen Hurts (you can debate his pedigree, and I hesitated to list him, but he's beat us twice now) Kyler Murray Baker Mayfield Josh Allen Lamar Jackson So do we trust our scouting, or not?

11-21-2021, 06:57 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by neugey List of recent rookie QB's put into action who have been competent or better: Mac Jones Joe Burrow Justin Herbert Gardner Minshew Tua Tagavaloia Jalen Hurts (you can debate his pedigree, and I hesitated to list him, but he's beat us twice now) Kyler Murray Baker Mayfield Josh Allen Lamar Jackson So do we trust our scouting, or not? Most of those were drafted to start right away. All but Hurts and Minshew were drafted in the first round. Book was drafted to someday maybe have a chance after development. leilung, saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.

11-21-2021, 08:04 PM	#5
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,820 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Most of those were drafted to start right away. All but Hurts and Minshew were drafted in the first round. Book was drafted to someday maybe have a chance after development. There's no possible argument that Book is a "project" QB and needs this additional "development" you are alluding to. He's the all-time winningest QB in Irish history. Plenty of starts under his belt and lots of big game experience. He played in 45 games in college ... the same number Drew Brees played in at Purdue. Maybe not as many pass attempts as Drew, but Ian played in a pro-style offense at a high level and Coach Kelly did a fine job getting him ready. This is a rookie with pedigree. Was Book a product of an Irish system - is he fools' gold? Definitely not. The QB situation before and now after him has been a big adventure - Book however, was a stalwart with great confidence and low turnovers. Book just doesn't have the howitzer arm strength that makes the NFL scouts/experts jizz themselves and spend a first/second round pick. Neither did Brees; luckily Brees had the Rose Bowl W and bigger passing stats working for him. Does it suck being in this situation losing Jameis to injury and having Taysom so banged up - Yes! Does it make sense to keep starting a very marginal and limited Siemian out of "rookie phobia" - No! Sometimes circumstances change and you need to take the next step with a rookie QB a little sooner than you planned. Ask the coach from Baltimore if he thinks he made the wrong decision a few years ago. Now, Book is no Lamar Jackson, but he certainly could be a starter in the mold of Jake Plummer, Rich Gannon, Tony Romo or Jeff Garcia - and possibly better. If Book is the incarnation of any of those four, he'd be a sight for sore eyes compared to what we have right now!

11-22-2021, 07:49 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by neugey There's no possible argument that Book is a "project" QB and needs this additional "development" you are alluding to. He's the all-time winningest QB in Irish history. Plenty of starts under his belt and lots of big game experience. He played in 45 games in college ... the same number Drew Brees played in at Purdue. Maybe not as many pass attempts as Drew, but Ian played in a pro-style offense at a high level and Coach Kelly did a fine job getting him ready. This is a rookie with pedigree. Was Book a product of an Irish system - is he fools' gold? Definitely not. The QB situation before and now after him has been a big adventure - Book however, was a stalwart with great confidence and low turnovers. Book just doesn't have the howitzer arm strength that makes the NFL scouts/experts jizz themselves and spend a first/second round pick. Neither did Brees; luckily Brees had the Rose Bowl W and bigger passing stats working for him. Does it suck being in this situation losing Jameis to injury and having Taysom so banged up - Yes! Does it make sense to keep starting a very marginal and limited Siemian out of "rookie phobia" - No! Sometimes circumstances change and you need to take the next step with a rookie QB a little sooner than you planned. Ask the coach from Baltimore if he thinks he made the wrong decision a few years ago. Now, Book is no Lamar Jackson, but he certainly could be a starter in the mold of Jake Plummer, Rich Gannon, Tony Romo or Jeff Garcia - and possibly better. If Book is the incarnation of any of those four, he'd be a sight for sore eyes compared to what we have right now! I take it you are a Notre Dame fan. Admittedly I really don't follow college football hardly at all beyond NC State, but I had never heard of Ian Book until we drafted him. It doesn't seem as though the front office sees him as more than a project at this point and I trust their judgement since their goal is to win games, not to see what we have. Early in the season a caller asked former Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis about Book and Weis said he likes Book a lot, but added that Book is no where near prepared to take snaps in an NFL game, but may be at some point in the future and that would be at some point beyond this season or the next when the caller asked when.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-22-2021, 09:07 AM	#7
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,820 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I take it you are a Notre Dame fan. Admittedly I really don't follow college football hardly at all beyond NC State, but I had never heard of Ian Book until we drafted him. It doesn't seem as though the front office sees him as more than a project at this point and I trust their judgement since their goal is to win games, not to see what we have. Early in the season a caller asked former Notre Dame HC Charlie Weis about Book and Weis said he likes Book a lot, but added that Book is no where near prepared to take snaps in an NFL game, but may be at some point in the future and that would be at some point beyond this season or the next when the caller asked when. Not a Notre Dame fan. Just watching college football over the last few years and Book really caught my eye, and over time my belief in Book has grown - with that win over Clemson being a real high point. Yes my belief in Book is a little irrational ... it's something that cannot be really explained. Looking back, this has only happened to me with one other player - Nick Van Exel. Similar situation - saw the Cincinnati games and Van Exel popped off the screen and before long I could not shake this strong feeling that this was exactly the guard the Lakers needed to help them win (or at least keep them out of the basement) in the post-Magic era. Lo and behold Jerry West and the Lakers also saw the sleeper potential in Van Exel and stole him in the second round. From there, "Nick at Nite" Van Exel became a starter and showed clutch ability and for a period of years kept the Lakers competitive and close to .500, even if not quite playoff caliber. Without him, the Lakers would have been cellar dwellars. Feel very much the same way about Book - a gigantic hunch that Book is destined to be a very good player and like Van Exel it is serendipity that my pro team drafted him. And we are in a better spot personnel and coaching wise than those 90's Lakers - I think he has what it takes to the continue the winning tradition Brees established, albeit with a different style of play. Whenever Book gets his chance to shine I think you will all see how great of a fit he will be. Especially if Payton calls plays to his strengths and we do a lot more QB rollout and moving the pocket. It will reinvigorate our offense. Pretty sure I'll be asking for a Book jersey for Christmas regardless of how this goes. SmashMouth likes this.

11-21-2021, 09:31 PM	#8
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,419	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Is this even a conversation to have now? That is, unless we are admitting that this team has zero chance to get into post season play in the 2021 season? I can't really see the point in 'we have other guys so let's see what we have' with project personnel unless means that starting him makes this team better for this season. Period. Obviously, the coaches don't see enough to want to pull the trigger on that option... yet. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

11-21-2021, 11:05 PM	#10
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,820 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Why Book is the man for the job Originally Posted by leilung Is this even a conversation to have now? That is, unless we are admitting that this team has zero chance to get into post season play in the 2021 season? I can't really see the point in 'we have other guys so let's see what we have' with project personnel unless means that starting him makes this team better for this season. Period. Obviously, the coaches don't see enough to want to pull the trigger on that option... yet. If we wait until it's too late and the postseason hopes are toast, then we could run into a situation where we look back and wonder what could have been if we just handed Book the reigns in week 11 or 12. No one in their right mind sees Siemian leading us to a playoff win. Book at least gives us a chance if he provides a spark. Taysom too possibly, if he can manage to get healthy enough. Need to give up the ghost on Siemian. We're handicapping ourselves.