Alvin Kamara Arrested

dizzle88 · 03-02-2023, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

CJ’s comments just made me glad he’s gone. I just don’t come from a background where you get into a fight or even get jumped and then go get the police involved. If anything I would have forced Kamara to pay me a few million and went on with my life. If there’s any reason for me not to get the police involved 9.5 times out of 10 I’m taking it. I just really don’t care about a guy getting beat up. If he would have died or ended up with brain damage I get it, but he had some broken bones. I can’t even pretend to care when I’ve got friends and family who were shot and killed for less. It just doesn’t strike a cord with me. Idk. 🤷🏽*♂️

I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether.

Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead.

It really can be that easy.

Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal?

Who knows, maybe it's just me lol

rezburna · 03-02-2023, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether.

Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead.

It really can be that easy.

Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal?

Who knows, maybe it's just me lol

It could just be the context of CJ bad mouthing people who he was in the trenches with as opposed to Kamara getting into a squabble with a complete stranger. I don’t know CJ’s relationship with the guys in the locker room but I’m assuming he made friends. Friends he just ****ted on. So weighing getting into a fight with a stranger who disrespected you as opposed to ****ting on people you’re supposed to be friends with, I’d lean more to CJ being to jerk. I’d punch a stranger who disrespected me. I’d never publicly go at my friends.

jnormand · 03-02-2023, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether.

Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead.

It really can be that easy.

Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal?

Who knows, maybe it's just me lol

It’s not just you. And regardless of arguments made, maybe the guy deserved to get punched. But the beat down he got was overwhelmingly over the line. He posed no realistic threat. And to be chased down and beat is ridiculous because he is no longer a threat. And he sure as hell was no longer a threat after he was on the ground getting his face kicked and stomped.

I’m not advocating that the guy is not a douche. I’m sure he is. But it obviously shows a lack of character and self control by the parties who decided to beat the holy living **** out of him.

There’s no honor in a group of guys beating the **** out of one guy. You wanna go one v one. Go ahead. What happened was disgusting. And that goes for any group of people that attack a single person like that. Disgusting.

Using the fact that other people have been shot for less is not a logical argument imo. Just shows that the people who were shot obviously didn’t deserve that and the shooters themselves should be in prison for life. It doesn’t make what AK and his buddies did not that big a deal.

I’d be fine with AK never playing another down for the Saints again.

AsylumGuido · 03-03-2023, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether.

Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead.

It really can be that easy.

Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal?

Who knows, maybe it's just me lol

I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt.

As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation.

I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there.

I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end.

halloween 65 · 03-03-2023, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt.

As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation.

I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there.

I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end.

He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it?

K Major · 03-03-2023, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it?

Precisely.

rezburna · 03-03-2023, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it?

I agree with the part of it being my kid. If it was my kid I’m waging war. It ain’t though. He should have just extorted him for money and went about his life.

Rugby Saint II · 03-27-2023, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it?

I'm not so sure that the instigator was fleeing the scene or being knocked out of the elevator by AK. There is no doubt that AK should have let it go, but the dude was harassing them all night and apparently Kamara had enough when he started touching a female in the group.

My first martial arts instructor told me that if you get the better of a man then you should finish the fight before you let him get up even madder than when he started the fight. I still follow that philosophy when I teach my martial arts classes.

With the advent of cell phones no one wants to get involved and would rather post videos of altercations for clicks. It's sad. You can't even put a bully in their place anymore because all the judges care about now is a clip of a video with no relevance to who started it.

My twin brother and I were bullied badly as boys and my parents put us in martial arts to learn to defend ourselves and others. Children can be so mean and they grow up to be mean people who raise mean kids.

I'm not advocating beating up bullies but I certainly understand the mentality of the abused. We'll let this play out in court. Not the court of public opinion.

Edit: This wasn't some boy who got beat down. He was a full grown man with an antagonistic attitude that flowed over to his social media, and is readily available if anyone wants to read it. Yes, he is somebody's son like you mentioned but once again, he is still a full grown man who put himself in that situation with his poor decision making. Kamara put himself in court with poor decision making as well.

subguy · 03-04-2023, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt.

As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation.

I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there.

I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end.

I think there is so much irony today in the era of cell cam videos.

First, no one does the right thing and help anyone, we would rather film it, that is so messed up. Although, there would have been no help in the video I saw because everyone was too busy taking whacks at the defenseless piñata.

As a fan, I love Kamara, as part of the human race, I loathe his actions in this specific situation, at least from what I have seen in the videos released.

The legal system will allow for posturing and negotiation, as it should. A non-guilty verdict doesn't mean he wasn't part of the defenseless beating, that is irrefutable. In some folks mind, our system is only fair, when the ruling goes the direction they want it to go. OJ.

Which leads me to the second point. Video is now used as a narrative. We only see what they want us to see. I didn't see a complete video showing the catalyst which caused the beating. That said, there is a point where defending yourself, or your bruised ego, has gone too far. Kind of like many of the "undeserved" beatings seen in cell videos. It looks horrific, and is, and then the complete video or bodycam footage is released and you realize in the vast majority of these situations it could have been avoided with respect and compliance. If Kamara started out as a victim in this situation the tide sure changed.

In the limo immediately following the beating, the optics are bad. The group was a little too jovial considering what had just occurred, at least in the little clip shared.

As a Saints fan I hope this all works out well for the team, but as a human with some lingering faith in the justice system, I hope real justice is served regardless of which way this falls.

03-02-2023, 05:17 PM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by rezburna CJ’s comments just made me glad he’s gone. I just don’t come from a background where you get into a fight or even get jumped and then go get the police involved. If anything I would have forced Kamara to pay me a few million and went on with my life. If there’s any reason for me not to get the police involved 9.5 times out of 10 I’m taking it. I just really don’t care about a guy getting beat up. If he would have died or ended up with brain damage I get it, but he had some broken bones. I can’t even pretend to care when I’ve got friends and family who were shot and killed for less. It just doesn’t strike a cord with me. Idk. 🤷🏽*♂️ I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether. Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead. It really can be that easy. Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal? Who knows, maybe it's just me lol
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

03-02-2023, 05:27 PM	#2
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,099	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by dizzle88 I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether. Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead. It really can be that easy. Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal? Who knows, maybe it's just me lol It could just be the context of CJ bad mouthing people who he was in the trenches with as opposed to Kamara getting into a squabble with a complete stranger. I don’t know CJ’s relationship with the guys in the locker room but I’m assuming he made friends. Friends he just **ted on. So weighing getting into a fight with a stranger who disrespected you as opposed to **ting on people you’re supposed to be friends with, I’d lean more to CJ being to jerk. I’d punch a stranger who disrespected me. I’d never publicly go at my friends.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

03-02-2023, 06:06 PM	#3
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,761	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by dizzle88 I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether. Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead. It really can be that easy. Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal? Who knows, maybe it's just me lol It’s not just you. And regardless of arguments made, maybe the guy deserved to get punched. But the beat down he got was overwhelmingly over the line. He posed no realistic threat. And to be chased down and beat is ridiculous because he is no longer a threat. And he sure as hell was no longer a threat after he was on the ground getting his face kicked and stomped. I’m not advocating that the guy is not a douche. I’m sure he is. But it obviously shows a lack of character and self control by the parties who decided to beat the holy living ** out of him. There’s no honor in a group of guys beating the ** out of one guy. You wanna go one v one. Go ahead. What happened was disgusting. And that goes for any group of people that attack a single person like that. Disgusting. Using the fact that other people have been shot for less is not a logical argument imo. Just shows that the people who were shot obviously didn’t deserve that and the shooters themselves should be in prison for life. It doesn’t make what AK and his buddies did not that big a deal. I’d be fine with AK never playing another down for the Saints again.

03-03-2023, 09:37 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by dizzle88 I completely get your point, however i don't for a second believe that they meant to "only cause broken bones." I think they are extremely lucky he didn't get brain damage or die, because this would be a different conversation altogether. Kamara may not have been the main aggressor, but he's as culpable as the rest because he's involved. There was a police documentary here in the UK a while back called "one punch," where a young lad, who had never been in trouble before was agitated by an aggressor. The young lad landed one singular punch, the instigator fell and hit his head on a kerb, dead. It really can be that easy. Maybe it's different countries, different upbringings / surroundings, just seems odd to me that guys like CGJ are called jerks for making comments, but when Kamara attacks someone it's not that big a deal? Who knows, maybe it's just me lol I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt. As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation. I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there. I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

03-03-2023, 01:04 PM	#5
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt. As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation. I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there. I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end. He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it?

03-03-2023, 01:35 PM	#6
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,831 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by halloween 65 Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it? Precisely.

03-03-2023, 02:46 PM	#7
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,099	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by halloween 65 He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it? I agree with the part of it being my kid. If it was my kid I’m waging war. It ain’t though. He should have just extorted him for money and went about his life.

03-27-2023, 01:23 PM	#8
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by halloween 65 He might have back off but had went after him then hit him 3 to 4 times before the other thugs dropped in to finish the beatdown. He instagated the beating by going after a fleeing dude, punched him kept hitting him when he was down, the thugs finished what Kamara started. Then gets in uber and brags about beating someone no where near a professional athelete's shape. Guilty, guilty as he!!. Those rose colored glasses u wear wouldn't be so rosy if that had been u or ur kid getting that a$$ whipped like that now would it? I'm not so sure that the instigator was fleeing the scene or being knocked out of the elevator by AK. There is no doubt that AK should have let it go, but the dude was harassing them all night and apparently Kamara had enough when he started touching a female in the group. My first martial arts instructor told me that if you get the better of a man then you should finish the fight before you let him get up even madder than when he started the fight. I still follow that philosophy when I teach my martial arts classes. With the advent of cell phones no one wants to get involved and would rather post videos of altercations for clicks. It's sad. You can't even put a bully in their place anymore because all the judges care about now is a clip of a video with no relevance to who started it. My twin brother and I were bullied badly as boys and my parents put us in martial arts to learn to defend ourselves and others. Children can be so mean and they grow up to be mean people who raise mean kids. I'm not advocating beating up bullies but I certainly understand the mentality of the abused. We'll let this play out in court. Not the court of public opinion. Edit: This wasn't some boy who got beat down. He was a full grown man with an antagonistic attitude that flowed over to his social media, and is readily available if anyone wants to read it. Yes, he is somebody's son like you mentioned but once again, he is still a full grown man who put himself in that situation with his poor decision making. Kamara put himself in court with poor decision making as well.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

03-04-2023, 06:29 AM	#9
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,103	Re: Alvin Kamara Arrested Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I kind of get what you are saying, diz, but watch the video again. After a few seconds Kamara backs off while the other three keep at it with far more intensity. There are different levels of culpability here and that's why there are different levels of charges. And, as rezburna pointed out, Kamara's guilty plea wasn't a declaration that he did nothing. It included what is a legal reasoning behind his actions that has to be proven to be false by the prosecution ... beyond a shadow of doubt. As for defending Kamara, it's not only because of the innocent unless proven guilty to me. It's also because of how important the Saints are in my life. Over the last 55 plus years they have become a very important part of my life. It's almost as if I see the whole organization as part of an extended family. I will always stand for and protect my family. That's simply my motivation. I know most everyone here are fans of the Saints, but each has his or her own take of what that fandom entails. I've seen several long time members of the board here simply hang up their banners and leave during the player protest period. They washed their hands of the Saints and moved on. Clearly their involvement as fans was not as deeply rooted as mine. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's there. I believe others look at the team as an abstract. A source of entertainment of which they truly enjoy, but with the players and staff being nothing more than pieces on a board that are easily discarded and replaced. They probably even love the abstract as a whole, but its components are nothing more than just that, means to an end. I think there is so much irony today in the era of cell cam videos. First, no one does the right thing and help anyone, we would rather film it, that is so messed up. Although, there would have been no help in the video I saw because everyone was too busy taking whacks at the defenseless piñata. As a fan, I love Kamara, as part of the human race, I loathe his actions in this specific situation, at least from what I have seen in the videos released. The legal system will allow for posturing and negotiation, as it should. A non-guilty verdict doesn't mean he wasn't part of the defenseless beating, that is irrefutable. In some folks mind, our system is only fair, when the ruling goes the direction they want it to go. OJ. Which leads me to the second point. Video is now used as a narrative. We only see what they want us to see. I didn't see a complete video showing the catalyst which caused the beating. That said, there is a point where defending yourself, or your bruised ego, has gone too far. Kind of like many of the "undeserved" beatings seen in cell videos. It looks horrific, and is, and then the complete video or bodycam footage is released and you realize in the vast majority of these situations it could have been avoided with respect and compliance. If Kamara started out as a victim in this situation the tide sure changed. In the limo immediately following the beating, the optics are bad. The group was a little too jovial considering what had just occurred, at least in the little clip shared. As a Saints fan I hope this all works out well for the team, but as a human with some lingering faith in the justice system, I hope real justice is served regardless of which way this falls.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.