The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006

Lord_Saint83 · 05-25-2022, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was.

I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better.

Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought.

I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year.

I agree with you on that. Some people don’t remember that it took Drew until about the 09 season to fully master the offense. He came to us as a qb that was good but not great, yet. He was benched a few times in SD and until they drafted Rivers did he get a grasp on the game. I’m in no way bashing Drew but what I’m saying is he had bumps on his way to greatness and some guys take a while to figure it out. Jameis is just gonna be a guy that is damned if you damned if you don’t. Just like Stafford

jeanpierre · 05-25-2022, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was.

Media coverage has been far more favorable for Winston, if anything; the criticisms (not all is bad) has been in replies to articles, or tweets with links to articles...

Have seen the obsession of Winston one season with Arians that you refer, but I've looked at his five years and wasn't impressed with his development, progression...

In so far as the comparison to Favre, Favre really played in two different eras of NFL football...

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better.

It's ironic you mention in your second line he wasn't a TO machine, and that's absolute correct, and yet Winston's supporters argue Payton limited him?!?

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought.

I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year.

Well let's see Winston play; he's had his Lasix, declared himself ready to go today to NFLN, and there's never been a better Saints roster than now, so we shall see...

While we mentioned Horn, he was awful in his last season; many of the interceptions were because Horn was in the wrong place, failed to make his reads...

SaintGnome · 05-25-2022, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business...

This was also when I checked out on Haslett

The Dude · 05-25-2022, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

The idea that someone would attempt to draw parallels between Drew Brees and Jameis Winston is illogical, then again not surprised as who wrote this article...

Remember some fans noting the risk, many ignorant of Bree's injury, but the consensus was they'd had enough of Aaron Brooks inconsistent, mediocre-record play...

Personally liked Brooks, especially after I saw a side of him at the Metairie Best Buy where he innocently played pick-a-boo with my baby girl in the DVD section...

Brooks lost me when both he and Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business...

So Brees was a welcomed change and he certainly didn't have Jameis background of suspect behavior, including rape allegations buried by FSU and the alumni...

No matter, Winston's apologists will continue the effort to insulate Winston from criticism; no matter, these were very different situations with little to no parallels...

Brees often played with receivers that would struggle to make other rosters, and yet he produced at an elite level; Winston apparently needs a better supporting cast...

Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs and let him earn the appropriate praise and/or criticism that his play will deserve to receive...

There was also another very big difference. At the time we had never really been relevant. Not consistently anyway and we definitely had never experienced a winning culture. Most of us would have been thrilled to make the playoffs a couple of years in a row. Expectations are way higher now. If Brees wouldn’t have worked out then it would have been par for the course at that point in time. Sub.500 seasons are unacceptable now, even if we see future potential.

rezburna · 05-25-2022, 06:03 AM

It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can.

TheOak · 05-25-2022, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can.

By nearly all accounts Brees exceeded his perceived ceiling (After all, Drew is too short to see over his centers a**

), and Jameis could as well have a similar career.

Once you get to the NFL everyone has a high skill floor, the ceiling development depends a lot on the player. Contrasting Drew Brees vs JaMarcus Russell highlights what happens when work ethic out performs unrefined raw talent.

Speculation gets players into the league, application determines how successful they are, and luck determines how long they stay.

jeanpierre · 05-25-2022, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can.

Not trying parse your words, but I'd say Brees has been the more successful football player; athletically, you're dead on - Winston wins the Combine contest...

As far QBs success, I'd like to know once season is underway what time in the morning the QBs show; Brees use to open the door for the custodian by some accounts...

Boston Saint · 05-25-2022, 11:22 AM

Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that.

That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs.

i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas.

You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic.

AsylumGuido · 05-25-2022, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that.

That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs.

i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas.

You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic.

Don't forget about Taysom Hill at TE. He was the 19th rated TE (2022 PPR projections) in our dynasty/legacy league draft going on right now.

Boston Saint · 05-25-2022, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Don't forget about Taysom Hill at TE. He was the 19th rated TE (2022 PPR projections) in our dynasty/legacy league draft going on right now.

Good point. He slipped my mind.

05-25-2022, 09:33 AM	#1
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by Boston Saint I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was. I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better. Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought. I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year. I agree with you on that. Some people don’t remember that it took Drew until about the 09 season to fully master the offense. He came to us as a qb that was good but not great, yet. He was benched a few times in SD and until they drafted Rivers did he get a grasp on the game. I’m in no way bashing Drew but what I’m saying is he had bumps on his way to greatness and some guys take a while to figure it out. Jameis is just gonna be a guy that is damned if you damned if you don’t. Just like Stafford AsylumGuido and Boston Saint like this.
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05-25-2022, 10:42 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by Boston Saint I see. Your “Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs” statement threw me off a little as I feel he’s had great scrutiny. For example he was shredded all over the media for his 30 INT season and people overlooked that he also had 5,000+ yards and 33 TDs that year. By comparison Bret Favre didn’t get near the grief for his 29 INT season in 2005 that had less than 4,000 yards and only 20 TDs. Manning had a worse statistical year than Winston’s early in his career too and he wasn’t knocked as hard as Winston was. Media coverage has been far more favorable for Winston, if anything; the criticisms (not all is bad) has been in replies to articles, or tweets with links to articles... Have seen the obsession of Winston one season with Arians that you refer, but I've looked at his five years and wasn't impressed with his development, progression... In so far as the comparison to Favre, Favre really played in two different eras of NFL football... Originally Posted by Boston Saint I also think Brees got recognition because the first year he came here he led us to our first NFC championship appearance. And while You are correct that If you take out Winston’s two best games (out of only 6 1/2) he didn’t have great numbers, but he also wasn’t the TO machine he had the label of being. It’s not like any of his replacements did any better. It's ironic you mention in your second line he wasn't a TO machine, and that's absolute correct, and yet Winston's supporters argue Payton limited him?!? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Plus let’s take a look at Drew’s first year here. If we pull out his two best games (Dallas and Tampa) he had 18 TDs in 14 games. That’s just over 1/game. Very similar to Jameis. Plus he had 11 INTs in those 14 games. That’s worse than Winston’s 2 INT in 4 1/2 games (He threw one against the Redskins game we are throwing out). Just food for thought. I also think Colston, Horn, and Henderson were better than what Winston had to work with last year. Well let's see Winston play; he's had his Lasix, declared himself ready to go today to NFLN, and there's never been a better Saints roster than now, so we shall see... While we mentioned Horn, he was awful in his last season; many of the interceptions were because Horn was in the wrong place, failed to make his reads... iceshack149 and Boston Saint like this.
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05-25-2022, 09:26 AM	#3
SaintGnome 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Bradenton,FL Posts: 642	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by jeanpierre Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business... This was also when I checked out on Haslett jeanpierre, Rugby Saint II and Boston Saint like this.

05-25-2022, 08:52 PM	#4
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,063	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by jeanpierre The idea that someone would attempt to draw parallels between Drew Brees and Jameis Winston is illogical, then again not surprised as who wrote this article... Remember some fans noting the risk, many ignorant of Bree's injury, but the consensus was they'd had enough of Aaron Brooks inconsistent, mediocre-record play... Personally liked Brooks, especially after I saw a side of him at the Metairie Best Buy where he innocently played pick-a-boo with my baby girl in the DVD section... Brooks lost me when both he and Haslett turned on Kyle Turley in the media for KT having his QB's back, letting the Jets know they couldn't give his QB the business... So Brees was a welcomed change and he certainly didn't have Jameis background of suspect behavior, including rape allegations buried by FSU and the alumni... No matter, Winston's apologists will continue the effort to insulate Winston from criticism; no matter, these were very different situations with little to no parallels... Brees often played with receivers that would struggle to make other rosters, and yet he produced at an elite level; Winston apparently needs a better supporting cast... Let's see Winston play under the same scrutiny as other NFL QBs and let him earn the appropriate praise and/or criticism that his play will deserve to receive... There was also another very big difference. At the time we had never really been relevant. Not consistently anyway and we definitely had never experienced a winning culture. Most of us would have been thrilled to make the playoffs a couple of years in a row. Expectations are way higher now. If Brees wouldn’t have worked out then it would have been par for the course at that point in time. Sub.500 seasons are unacceptable now, even if we see future potential. iceshack149, jeanpierre, Rugby Saint II and 3 others like this.
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05-25-2022, 06:03 AM	#5
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,114	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can. AsylumGuido, SmashMouth and Boston Saint like this.

05-25-2022, 07:00 AM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by rezburna It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can. By nearly all accounts Brees exceeded his perceived ceiling (After all, Drew is too short to see over his centers a** ), and Jameis could as well have a similar career. Once you get to the NFL everyone has a high skill floor, the ceiling development depends a lot on the player. Contrasting Drew Brees vs JaMarcus Russell highlights what happens when work ethic out performs unrefined raw talent. Speculation gets players into the league, application determines how successful they are, and luck determines how long they stay. iceshack149, SmashMouth, jeanpierre and 2 others like this.

05-25-2022, 08:27 AM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by rezburna It’s quite simple. Drew Brees is the superior football player. Jameis has more arm talent. He has the size. He has the mobility. However, Brees flourished in every aspect of the game once he came to New Orleans. Because Jameis has more natural talent he of course has a higher ceiling. It’s a ceiling I hope he reaches. If he can’t live up to Brees I won’t hold it against him. It’s only a handful of QB’s in history who can. Not trying parse your words, but I'd say Brees has been the more successful football player; athletically, you're dead on - Winston wins the Combine contest... As far QBs success, I'd like to know once season is underway what time in the morning the QBs show; Brees use to open the door for the custodian by some accounts...

05-25-2022, 11:22 AM	#8
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that. That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs. i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas. You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic. iceshack149 and jeanpierre like this.
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05-25-2022, 12:01 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by Boston Saint Agree that he has no excuses (maybe his injury) now. On paper he has the tools at WR. He should be able to get near his 5000 yard, 33 Td season while still keeping TOs down. The improved D (vs what he had in Tampa) should ensure that. That being said I am a little worried about the RB situation, esp if Kamara has a suspension. If not he he is still likely to miss a handful of games with injuries. So, I say we have a few question marks at RB. I also don’t like our TE situation unless the Krull steps up. So the RB and TE question marks are worrisome issues just like Winston had at Tampa even though he had good WRs. i do think Payton drilled into him to not thrown INTs..so that kept him down. But so did the lack of quality receivers and TEs. Maybe Payton told him to keep things in check because he felt he didn’t have TEs or WRs that could be trusted to make plays. That happened to Drew in the playoff loss to tampa…his TE fumbled and his WRs weren’t stepping up without a healthy Thomas. You are right though that the proof will be on the field. I am very optimistic. Don't forget about Taysom Hill at TE. He was the 19th rated TE (2022 PPR projections) in our dynasty/legacy league draft going on right now.

05-25-2022, 12:09 PM	#10
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: The Jameis Winston Doubters Parallel the Drew Brees Doubters of 2006 Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Don't forget about Taysom Hill at TE. He was the 19th rated TE (2022 PPR projections) in our dynasty/legacy league draft going on right now. Good point. He slipped my mind.