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Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Boston Saint Well, since you mentioned Belichick, his first 3 years as HC were losing records as well as 5 of his first 6 seasons. His last year in Cleveland he was 5-11 then he was 5-11 ...

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Old 08-20-2022, 07:14 PM   #31
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
Well, since you mentioned Belichick, his first 3 years as HC were losing records as well as 5 of his first 6 seasons. His last year in Cleveland he was 5-11 then he was 5-11 his next season (first at NE). The 4-12 record Allen had at the dysfunctional Raiders is more on the organization and talent level than his coaching IMO. Time will tell though.
Bill Belichick with the Browns faced much more adversity and produced much better results than Dennis Allen with the Raiders. Just about every indicator you look at looks better for Belichick with the Browns than Allen with the Raiders. The whole 'dysfunctional franchise' angle falls apart when you look at the details.

Belichick's worst season with the Browns was his final season when they went 5-11, but that was only after Art Modell announced the team was moving to Baltimore and set their season into chaos and a 1-6 finish after the announcement. Dennis Allen's best season with the Raiders was 4-12, worse than Belichick's worst. But maybe Dennis Allen inherited a worse team? Maybe they continued to struggle after he left because thats what the Raiders do? Except that's not the case, the Raiders were more of just mediocre before and after Allen's tenure, the Browns were worse. Allen inherited an 8-8 team that finished 7-9 the first full season after he left. Both better than any season when Allen ran the team. Compare to Belichick who inherited a 3-13 team that went 4-12 the first full season after he left, both worse than any season he coached. Dennis Allen's teams averaged 4 wins during his tenure vs 7.5 wins immediately before/after. Bill Belichick's Browns teams averaged 7.2 wins during his tenure vs 3.5 wins immediately before/after. Belichick made his teams 3.2 wins better and Allen made his teams 3.5 wins worse. If they both inherited 8-8 teams you would expect Belichick to go 11-5 and Allen 4-12. Allen did inherit an 8-8 team and went 4-12. Belichick inherited a 3-13 team so it took him a few seasons to get to 11-5 and then he fell to 5-11 amid a flurry of rumors that led to 4-5 start ending in an announcement of a move and name change that led to a 1-6 finish.

I hope Allen does great, but realistically he is inheriting a 9-8 team now and based on his coaching record alone, it would be reasonable to expect a 5-12 season, perhaps 4-13 if you account for the 0-4 start before Allen was fired from the Raiders. To succeed, he will need to up his coaching game greatly and take a next step, not be given excuses because he coached the Raiders.
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Old 08-20-2022, 07:35 PM   #32
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Bill Belichick with the Browns faced much more adversity and produced much better results than Dennis Allen with the Raiders. Just about every indicator you look at looks better for Belichick with the Browns than Allen with the Raiders. The whole 'dysfunctional franchise' angle falls apart when you look at the details.

Belichick's worst season with the Browns was his final season when they went 5-11, but that was only after Art Modell announced the team was moving to Baltimore and set their season into chaos and a 1-6 finish after the announcement. Dennis Allen's best season with the Raiders was 4-12, worse than Belichick's worst. But maybe Dennis Allen inherited a worse team? Maybe they continued to struggle after he left because thats what the Raiders do? Except that's not the case, the Raiders were more of just mediocre before and after Allen's tenure, the Browns were worse. Allen inherited an 8-8 team that finished 7-9 the first full season after he left. Both better than any season when Allen ran the team. Compare to Belichick who inherited a 3-13 team that went 4-12 the first full season after he left, both worse than any season he coached. Dennis Allen's teams averaged 4 wins during his tenure vs 7.5 wins immediately before/after. Bill Belichick's Browns teams averaged 7.2 wins during his tenure vs 3.5 wins immediately before/after. Belichick made his teams 3.2 wins better and Allen made his teams 3.5 wins worse. If they both inherited 8-8 teams you would expect Belichick to go 11-5 and Allen 4-12. Allen did inherit an 8-8 team and went 4-12. Belichick inherited a 3-13 team so it took him a few seasons to get to 11-5 and then he fell to 5-11 amid a flurry of rumors that led to 4-5 start ending in an announcement of a move and name change that led to a 1-6 finish.

I hope Allen does great, but realistically he is inheriting a 9-8 team now and based on his coaching record alone, it would be reasonable to expect a 5-12 season, perhaps 4-13 if you account for the 0-4 start before Allen was fired from the Raiders. To succeed, he will need to up his coaching game greatly and take a next step, not be given excuses because he coached the Raiders.

Damn you must have some free time on your hands to put all that together.
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Old 08-20-2022, 11:16 PM   #33
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by stickman View Post
Damn you must have some free time on your hands to put all that together.
People play candy crush. People watch reality television dating competitions. People spend time under overpasses on purpose to spray paint their nicknames where junkies and homeless will see them. So as hobbies with spare time go, i figure looking up and reporting some stats to back my feeling than allen with the raiders was worse than belichick with the browns is not the worst use of the most incredible amount of time. Look at the federalist papers. Folks used to write a lot of stuff about their opinions before we became a society of viral 144 character tweets and reaction videos with duck faces.
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Old 08-21-2022, 08:33 AM   #34
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by stickman View Post
Damn you must have some free time on your hands to put all that together.
You must have some free time to read that whole thing.
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Old 08-21-2022, 10:17 AM   #35
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Don't forget that most of that poor defense isn't going to be on the team in ten days.

Neither will the PUP:
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Old 08-21-2022, 11:02 AM   #36
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Bill Belichick with the Browns faced much more adversity and produced much better results than Dennis Allen with the Raiders. Just about every indicator you look at looks better for Belichick with the Browns than Allen with the Raiders. The whole 'dysfunctional franchise' angle falls apart when you look at the details.

Belichick's worst season with the Browns was his final season when they went 5-11, but that was only after Art Modell announced the team was moving to Baltimore and set their season into chaos and a 1-6 finish after the announcement. Dennis Allen's best season with the Raiders was 4-12, worse than Belichick's worst. But maybe Dennis Allen inherited a worse team? Maybe they continued to struggle after he left because thats what the Raiders do? Except that's not the case, the Raiders were more of just mediocre before and after Allen's tenure, the Browns were worse. Allen inherited an 8-8 team that finished 7-9 the first full season after he left. Both better than any season when Allen ran the team. Compare to Belichick who inherited a 3-13 team that went 4-12 the first full season after he left, both worse than any season he coached. Dennis Allen's teams averaged 4 wins during his tenure vs 7.5 wins immediately before/after. Bill Belichick's Browns teams averaged 7.2 wins during his tenure vs 3.5 wins immediately before/after. Belichick made his teams 3.2 wins better and Allen made his teams 3.5 wins worse. If they both inherited 8-8 teams you would expect Belichick to go 11-5 and Allen 4-12. Allen did inherit an 8-8 team and went 4-12. Belichick inherited a 3-13 team so it took him a few seasons to get to 11-5 and then he fell to 5-11 amid a flurry of rumors that led to 4-5 start ending in an announcement of a move and name change that led to a 1-6 finish.

I hope Allen does great, but realistically he is inheriting a 9-8 team now and based on his coaching record alone, it would be reasonable to expect a 5-12 season, perhaps 4-13 if you account for the 0-4 start before Allen was fired from the Raiders. To succeed, he will need to up his coaching game greatly and take a next step, not be given excuses because he coached the Raiders.
Sorry bako, but the Raiders were in much worse shape when Allen took over then the Browns were when Belichick took over. It’s not even close.

In the five years before Allen got there the Raiders win totals were 8, 8, 5, 5, and 4 (30 wins), NO playoff appearances. Plus, they hadn’t had a winning season in the nine years before (2002).

Now Let’s look at the Browns. In the five years before Bill took over; Win totals of 3,9,10,10, and 12 (44 wins) with FOUR Playoff appearances in 5 years.

In the 10 seasons between Gruden leaving and Allen the Raiders went through 6 coaches, none lasting over 2 seasons. In the 10 seasons before Bellichik?…3 coaches with 2 of them lasting over 4 seasons. So, what sounds like a more stable franchise?

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora
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Old 08-21-2022, 01:56 PM   #37
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Honestly Ruiz just infuriates me. The way he just stared at Jones instead of looking for someone to block, then he just got pushed into Jones and made the tackle himself.
Just wait until the real games start.

The excuses are coming.

This was a reach in the 1st round.
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Old 08-21-2022, 02:05 PM   #38
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Re: Observations from the Saints' preseason loss @ GB

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Old 08-22-2022, 04:40 PM   #39
 
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Old 08-22-2022, 04:41 PM   #40
 
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