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Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Did we just witness the first episode of “quantum’s leap”?...

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Old 09-12-2022, 01:19 PM   #81
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Did we just witness the first episode of “quantum’s leap”?
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Old 09-12-2022, 01:20 PM   #82
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Holy smokes. A win like that makes the Saints so much more energized and confident and makes the Falcons frustrated and depressed. So great that it happened in their stadium.
Doug Marrone has some work to do with the Saints starting RG and current starting LT.
Edit:Marrone has his work cut out for him.
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Last edited by iceshack149; 09-12-2022 at 01:44 PM.. Reason: Rez made a good point about the Saints LT
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Old 09-12-2022, 01:26 PM   #83
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Thought this was a good video. Good class by some Falcons players. Most guys gave credit and commented on the Saints being a good/great team along with praise for JW.

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Old 09-12-2022, 01:34 PM   #84
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

I'm on PFF and James Hurst graded out really well. I'm actually surprised by this.

James Hurst - 75.7
Andrus Peat - 50.5
Erik McCoy - 63.6
Cesar Ruiz - 46.4
Ryan Ramczyk - 77.2

It's the Guard play that we really need to address. They might need to put a call in to Ereck Flowers. We should have never given Peat a contact and Ruiz definitely needs to hit the door.
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Old 09-12-2022, 01:34 PM   #85
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

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Old 09-12-2022, 01:42 PM   #86
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
I'm on PFF and James Hurst graded out really well. I'm actually surprised by this.

James Hurst - 75.7
Andrus Peat - 50.5
Erik McCoy - 63.6
Cesar Ruiz - 46.4
Ryan Ramczyk - 77.2

It's the Guard play that we really need to address. They might need to put a call in to Ereck Flowers. We should have never given Peat a contact and Ruiz definitely needs to hit the door.
Ruiz yet again. 46.4 ... smdh. Ridiculous.

All of that camp talk from players on his practices was fool's gold.

Year #3 & he's not improving.
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Old 09-12-2022, 01:42 PM   #87
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Some more grades:

Jameis Winston - 79.6 (Great rating)
Alvin Kamara - 54.2
Mark Ingram - 49.9
Michael Thomas - 73.5
Jarvis Landry - 66.3
Chris Olave - 65.5
Taysom Hill - 68.8
Juwan Johnson - 69.6

Cam Jordan - 63.3
Marcus Davenport 65.9
David Onyemata - 61.9
Shy Tuttle - 41.9 (Call Suh)
Demario Davis - 71.4
Pete Werner - 58.1
Marshon Lattimore - 65.4
Bradley Roby - 52.7
Tyrann Mathieu - 79.2 (He looked great to me.)
Marcus Maye - 56.4
Justin Evans - 57.5

Looks like Jameis was our highest rated player with Tyrann Mathieu close behind. Interior offensive and defensive line need to be addressed. Call Suh. Call Malcolm Brown.

We got good ratings from all our receivers as well. That's definitely a position of strength and the coaching staff needs to recognize we're a passing team. Kamara is much more of a passing catch back then he is a between the tackles runner. Ingram is still good but he isn't what he used to be, so truth is we don't have that kind of back anymore. We need to throw to open up the run...not the opposite. We're not built for it.
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Old 09-12-2022, 02:06 PM   #88
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
Some more grades:

Jameis Winston - 79.6 (Great rating)
Alvin Kamara - 54.2
Mark Ingram - 49.9
Michael Thomas - 73.5
Jarvis Landry - 66.3
Chris Olave - 65.5
Taysom Hill - 68.8
Juwan Johnson - 69.6

Cam Jordan - 63.3
Marcus Davenport 65.9
David Onyemata - 61.9
Shy Tuttle - 41.9 (Call Suh)
Demario Davis - 71.4
Pete Werner - 58.1
Marshon Lattimore - 65.4
Bradley Roby - 52.7
Tyrann Mathieu - 79.2 (He looked great to me.)
Marcus Maye - 56.4
Justin Evans - 57.5

Looks like Jameis was our highest rated player with Tyrann Mathieu close behind. Interior offensive and defensive line need to be addressed. Call Suh. Call Malcolm Brown.

We got good ratings from all our receivers as well. That's definitely a position of strength and the coaching staff needs to recognize we're a passing team. Kamara is much more of a passing catch back then he is a between the tackles runner. Ingram is still good but he isn't what he used to be, so truth is we don't have that kind of back anymore. We need to throw to open up the run...not the opposite. We're not built for it.
Thanks for the info rez. I’m surprised by a few of the grades. I thought ingram hit the holes well and with good quickness for him. His low rating must have been largely because of the fumble. It sure we be nice to have a guy like D Samuel or Patterson to help the run game. I would not mind if a 2nd or third round pick was used for a young RB stud if the right guy is out there.
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Old 09-12-2022, 02:19 PM   #89
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

I am glad we won, but the fact that we almost lost to what many consider the worst team in the league is strong evidence for why we should have kept our 2023 1st round pick as insurance. If the ball bounces a different way and we start the season with a loss to Atlanta, or if one of those free releases gets Winston injured instead of Prescott, its not hard to see a team that can lose to Atlanta week 1 and depends on a lot of veterans with scary injury histories ending up with the #1 overall pick. Olave was good but was our #3 receiver. Penning fought teammates in camp and then got injured. Having two first round picks was not critical, it wasn't the difference in this game. The salary one was paid could have got us another veteran who might have made similar impact, or a 2nd round pick could have made a few timely catches like Olave made. We have to keep playing to win, but I hate losing that pick because there is no consolation prize if we lose, and realistically Tampa is going to be a lot better than Atlanta. I don't buy any argument that Atlanta is very underrated, maybe they are the worst team in the league or maybe not, but they are definitely bottom 5-10. We are lucky we opened with the homecoming game.

Winston is a high ceiling QB and performed as well as any QB not named Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. His injury scare reminds us that we need to protect him better. I continue to believe that Dennis Allen is a bigger question mark than Jameis Winston, based on their previous records with the top job in the NFL, and based on their qualifications coming into a top job in the NFL. Winston showed what he can do if the offense is suited to the personnel and the wide receivers are not all undrafted free agents and low level journeymen. Allen ran the wrong offense for 3 quarters, tried to impose a bruising running game with a makeshift oline and dink and and dunk without any dinkers or dunkers. Allen oversaw a team that committed a lot of dumb penalties and poor clock management. I did not see a team that was clean in its execution or wise in its strategy, I saw a team that was coached like a 4-12 Raiders outfit just playing ball and not sweating the details, which was then carried to a win at the end on the backs of Winston's arm and the receivers hands. Hopefully Allen will focus on the details and execution, word on discipline and clock management, and let Winston cook on offense.

Taysom Hill has always been very talented as a ball carrier. But from his history we know he has been made of glass. Every game he suits up we should consider a blessing. Building too much of the offense around him would be a mistake due to his lack of durability. The 4th quarter offense based on trusting our receivers and QB to make big plays is more sustainable. Gadget plays with Taysom will be more effective if we use them sparingly enough that that catch opponents by surprise and leave him fresh, while if we keep going back to those plays when one works, they will stop working and we will lose Hill.

Its not a plus that all of our points were scored by players coming off serious injuries. Its a risk. Maybe next week most of our points will be scored by players facing criminal charges in ongoing investigations. Not good either.

We have a lot of versatile weapons on our offense. Kamara is a threat at WR. Johnson can play TE/WR. Hill can play TE/FB/QB. Given all this versatility we shouldn't need as much depth as other teams at those positions and didn't see much need for Trainwreck Smith or Adam Troutman and neither caught a pass. I wonder if their roster spots might better be utilized on extra depth at oline. We could make Smith available for trade at the cost of a conditional 2025 7th round pick based on blocking statistics and if nobody takes him, we could offer him a job as an assistant WR coach to teach people who can get open and catch how to block better. Juwan Johnson's hurdle was awesome.

Kyle Pitts had 7 targets for 2 receptions. This is why you don't draft a TE that early. Yeah yeah yeah he could change the position blah blah blah. Playing TE in the NFL is different, you are exposed, defenseless, stretched out to make the grab over the middle, with the scariest men on the planet bearing down on you. Nobody can predict who can endure that and still perform well enough to justify that high of a pick. The odds are Pitts wont. He's more likely to change sports medicine with some surgery he has after doing some Michael Jordan bs to make an amazing catch midfield and then getting drilled.

2021 Jameis Winston > 2022 Aaron Rodgers. 2022 Aaron Rodgers is suffering due to lack a proven WR but still has a couple high draft pick WRs and mid level free agents with past success. 2021 Jameis Winston had undrafted free agents and bottom of the barrel failed journeymen who planned to retire and play Lacrosse before the Saints paid them to slap on a uniform. Jameis Winston could have made some noise last year with the receivers Rodgers has this year.
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Old 09-12-2022, 03:07 PM   #90
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Re: Observations from the Saints come-behind win against Falcons

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I am glad we won, but the fact that we almost lost to what many consider the worst team in the league is strong evidence for why we should have kept our 2023 1st round pick as insurance. If the ball bounces a different way and we start the season with a loss to Atlanta, or if one of those free releases gets Winston injured instead of Prescott, its not hard to see a team that can lose to Atlanta week 1 and depends on a lot of veterans with scary injury histories ending up with the #1 overall pick. Olave was good but was our #3 receiver. Penning fought teammates in camp and then got injured. Having two first round picks was not critical, it wasn't the difference in this game. The salary one was paid could have got us another veteran who might have made similar impact, or a 2nd round pick could have made a few timely catches like Olave made. We have to keep playing to win, but I hate losing that pick because there is no consolation prize if we lose, and realistically Tampa is going to be a lot better than Atlanta. I don't buy any argument that Atlanta is very underrated, maybe they are the worst team in the league or maybe not, but they are definitely bottom 5-10. We are lucky we opened with the homecoming game.

Winston is a high ceiling QB and performed as well as any QB not named Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. His injury scare reminds us that we need to protect him better. I continue to believe that Dennis Allen is a bigger question mark than Jameis Winston, based on their previous records with the top job in the NFL, and based on their qualifications coming into a top job in the NFL. Winston showed what he can do if the offense is suited to the personnel and the wide receivers are not all undrafted free agents and low level journeymen. Allen ran the wrong offense for 3 quarters, tried to impose a bruising running game with a makeshift oline and dink and and dunk without any dinkers or dunkers. Allen oversaw a team that committed a lot of dumb penalties and poor clock management. I did not see a team that was clean in its execution or wise in its strategy, I saw a team that was coached like a 4-12 Raiders outfit just playing ball and not sweating the details, which was then carried to a win at the end on the backs of Winston's arm and the receivers hands. Hopefully Allen will focus on the details and execution, word on discipline and clock management, and let Winston cook on offense.

Taysom Hill has always been very talented as a ball carrier. But from his history we know he has been made of glass. Every game he suits up we should consider a blessing. Building too much of the offense around him would be a mistake due to his lack of durability. The 4th quarter offense based on trusting our receivers and QB to make big plays is more sustainable. Gadget plays with Taysom will be more effective if we use them sparingly enough that that catch opponents by surprise and leave him fresh, while if we keep going back to those plays when one works, they will stop working and we will lose Hill.

Its not a plus that all of our points were scored by players coming off serious injuries. Its a risk. Maybe next week most of our points will be scored by players facing criminal charges in ongoing investigations. Not good either.

We have a lot of versatile weapons on our offense. Kamara is a threat at WR. Johnson can play TE/WR. Hill can play TE/FB/QB. Given all this versatility we shouldn't need as much depth as other teams at those positions and didn't see much need for Trainwreck Smith or Adam Troutman and neither caught a pass. I wonder if their roster spots might better be utilized on extra depth at oline. We could make Smith available for trade at the cost of a conditional 2025 7th round pick based on blocking statistics and if nobody takes him, we could offer him a job as an assistant WR coach to teach people who can get open and catch how to block better. Juwan Johnson's hurdle was awesome.

Kyle Pitts had 7 targets for 2 receptions. This is why you don't draft a TE that early. Yeah yeah yeah he could change the position blah blah blah. Playing TE in the NFL is different, you are exposed, defenseless, stretched out to make the grab over the middle, with the scariest men on the planet bearing down on you. Nobody can predict who can endure that and still perform well enough to justify that high of a pick. The odds are Pitts wont. He's more likely to change sports medicine with some surgery he has after doing some Michael Jordan bs to make an amazing catch midfield and then getting drilled.

2021 Jameis Winston > 2022 Aaron Rodgers. 2022 Aaron Rodgers is suffering due to lack a proven WR but still has a couple high draft pick WRs and mid level free agents with past success. 2021 Jameis Winston had undrafted free agents and bottom of the barrel failed journeymen who planned to retire and play Lacrosse before the Saints paid them to slap on a uniform. Jameis Winston could have made some noise last year with the receivers Rodgers has this year.
Well, you had a lot to say there bako. Some I agree with. But, as normal, you are expressing things mostly from a glass half empty perspective IMO. Ball bounces are a part of all games. Allen needs to be credited for keeping his team focused. One of our first round picks caught a big 2 point conversion; the other will be much needed help to the O-line you just maligned.

A big part of the issue (and I heard this expressed throughout coverage this weekend) is that fewer preseason games and less participation in playing them by starters has made for “rusty” play to start the season by many teams. Some on offense, some on D. Saints scored the 6th most points in the league ALL on offense and that’s with missing a easy FG. (we’d be tied for 4th then). The RBs all averaged over 4 YPC. Atlanta games are usually slugfests. There is plenty good to take from this apart from a “W” that we got because the ball bounced our way.

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora
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