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Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by leilung You could do this in an ideal world. But you're talking about investigating a multi-billion $ commercial enterprise with EVERYONE involved (Top to Bottom) with their hands in the pot! Short of finding game fixing for ...

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Old 09-21-2022, 10:54 AM   #11
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by leilung View Post
You could do this in an ideal world. But you're talking about investigating a multi-billion $ commercial enterprise with EVERYONE involved (Top to Bottom) with their hands in the pot!

Short of finding game fixing for gambling, I doubt if they could turn up something.

Keep in mind also that in order for a conspiracy to work, you have multiple parties collaborating together toward a single action. (Don't know about you, but I can't even get my family to collaborate on a restaurant decision!)
If history tells us anything, conspiracies inevitably fall apart because SOMEONE ALWAYS TALKS!
And this is precisely why there is no conspiracy. There are over 120 individual refs calling the games. There are a number of individuals overseeing and supporting those refs. Including the other 3,595 paid NFL employees you have over 3,700 individuals that would have to have their stories completely in sync to keep any level of corruption under wraps for any period of time, not to mention years upon years.

It is logistically impossible to maintain any sort of organized fixing of games. And don't bother pointing out where fixes have been discovered elsewhere. That just proves the point that it cannot be accomplished without getting caught.

What we are seeing is a combination of more and more advanced technology which enables better access to what's happening on the field via enhanced camera quality, increased numbers of those cameras, and advancements in replay. What we are seeing has been going on for decades as part time 50 year old officials do their best (which at times is horrible) to keep pace with some of the greatest athletes in the world.

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Old 09-21-2022, 11:33 AM   #12
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Here's a good April 2022 article from ESPN on the growing industry that guards against game/match fixing in sports.

Who's in charge of finding and catching cheaters in sports gambling? It's complicated.

AMONG INTEGRITY MONITORING services in this country, U.S. Integrity is unique among for-profit companies in that it doesn't engage in other gambling-related activities. Sportradar and Genius Sports, for example, have monitoring services, but also sell data feeds to customers including sportsbooks. There's also the International Betting Integrity Association, a nonprofit run by dues-paying sportsbook members who share reports of, and send out alerts about, suspicious activity. FanDuel and DraftKings are two of its biggest U.S. partners.

Holt said analysts for U.S. Integrity, which has more than 100 clients, review raw betting data, athlete performance data and officiating patterns, along with social media feeds and other sources of information, to assess what's moving betting lines.

-------------------------------------

Matt Fowler, the director of integrity at the International Betting Integrity Association, said sportsbooks, for one, are financially motivated to report suspicious activity. "If they have invested significant amounts in getting their lines right, but then they're the victims of corruptions, then they will be the ones who lose money on that," he said. "A match-fixing scandal would have a huge impact on a sport league or club's reputation."

---------------------------------------

In other words, there's no reason to "crowdfund private investigators" because there are already investigators working for these firms doing exactly what you want done.

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Old 09-21-2022, 02:31 PM   #13
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by stickman View Post
Interesting idea, but, and you can call me a cynic, I think even if an official came forward and admitted to bias in his calls, the league would call it an isolated incident and move on.

The league doesn't care about public perception of the refs. They care about sponsorships and broadcast revenue.

You would have to have an organized effort by fans across the country to boycott sponsors and not watch games to have an effect. Most fans will look at this, call Saints fans crybabies and move on, even though other teams have been screwed as well.

Just my 2 cents.
I don't think we could actually catch refs fixing games. Its possible but unlikely. But a private investigator can find lots of other things. I think some refs have intergrity and others lack it, and those that lack integrity are more likely the ones following Goodell's unspoken grudge against us from bountygate, and their own ref grudge against us from the no call, and being biased against us. The key it to pressure or remove the refs that lack integrity, and to do that we don't need to catch them fixing games. We can catch them cheating on their wives. We can catch them drinking and driving. We can catch them doing meth. Anything is good that gets a morally questionable ref fired from the NFL, causes them to quit the NFL (wife says no more road trips after they are caught cheating, or divorce leads to a child custody fight where they can't tell the court they are gone every weekend half the year), or causes them to stop making so many bad calls against us for fear of being investigated in their personal lives. The idea is that if refs make our seasons difficult, we try to investigate them fixing games, but in the process we end up making their personal lives much more difficult. Goodell has a lot of power, he has billions, but he can't make a refs wife stay if we get pictures of the ref with a stripper on the road. If we force enough 'sinner' refs out of the league, we will get more 'saint' refs who have a strong sense of personal integrity in how they call games, and the rest of the sinner refs may back off in order to sin in private. The point is not to influence the league, its to influence the refs directly to call a fair game or have their personal life under a lens.
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:39 PM   #14
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I don't think we could actually catch refs fixing games. Its possible but unlikely. But a private investigator can find lots of other things. I think some refs have intergrity and others lack it, and those that lack integrity are more likely the ones following Goodell's unspoken grudge against us from bountygate, and their own ref grudge against us from the no call, and being biased against us. The key it to pressure or remove the refs that lack integrity, and to do that we don't need to catch them fixing games. We can catch them cheating on their wives. We can catch them drinking and driving. We can catch them doing meth. Anything is good that gets a morally questionable ref fired from the NFL, causes them to quit the NFL (wife says no more road trips after they are caught cheating, or divorce leads to a child custody fight where they can't tell the court they are gone every weekend half the year), or causes them to stop making so many bad calls against us for fear of being investigated in their personal lives. The idea is that if refs make our seasons difficult, we try to investigate them fixing games, but in the process we end up making their personal lives much more difficult. Goodell has a lot of power, he has billions, but he can't make a refs wife stay if we get pictures of the ref with a stripper on the road. If we force enough 'sinner' refs out of the league, we will get more 'saint' refs who have a strong sense of personal integrity in how they call games, and the rest of the sinner refs may back off in order to sin in private. The point is not to influence the league, its to influence the refs directly to call a fair game or have their personal life under a lens.
Are you for real?
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:46 PM   #15
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
And this is precisely why there is no conspiracy. There are over 120 individual refs calling the games. There are a number of individuals overseeing and supporting those refs. Including the other 3,595 paid NFL employees you have over 3,700 individuals that would have to have their stories completely in sync to keep any level of corruption under wraps for any period of time, not to mention years upon years.

It is logistically impossible to maintain any sort of organized fixing of games. And don't bother pointing out where fixes have been discovered elsewhere. That just proves the point that it cannot be accomplished without getting caught.

What we are seeing is a combination of more and more advanced technology which enables better access to what's happening on the field via enhanced camera quality, increased numbers of those cameras, and advancements in replay. What we are seeing has been going on for decades as part time 50 year old officials do their best (which at times is horrible) to keep pace with some of the greatest athletes in the world.
I don't think there is an organized spoken conspiracy, I think there is disorganized unspoken bias. Goodell views himself as a sort of king whose authority should never be questioned less it be an insult that must be avenged. The Saints fan base questioned his authority more than any other, when we disproved bountygate and got numerous of his suspensions overturned. So there will probably never be any proof, just things like a bunch of refs from the Los Angeles area assigned to the NFC Championship game of LA vs the Saints, bad calls against the Saints rarely questioned, and a pattern of the Saints getting the most net penalty yards against us. Refs get the message that if they do a number on the Saints in the 4th quarter or playoffs, Uncle Roger will probably probably toast a beer on their behalf, and might buy them one next time they cross paths at the pub. For the refs I think many of them view themselves as some kind of aggrieved brotherhood. So when the no call happened and New Orleans fans pointed the finger at the refs, and the New Orleans coach went on the competition committee and created a new rule to second guess the refs subjective calls, we become public enemy number one. Uncle Roger is the boss man, and they know the Saints did Uncle Roger wrong overturning those bounty gate suspensions which must have been valid because such things are above their pay grade, so whenever they can tilt a call against the Saints, thats a great thing to do a solid for the boss man and maybe get a promotion down the road. It doesn't need to be spoken. Its obvious in how we are officiated to all but the most hardcore closeted Falcons fans.

Its not about proving a massive conspiracy. Its about creating consequences for the statistically proven long lived trend of our team getting amongst the worst treatment by refs in this era. Getting followed by a private investigator and getting pictures taken if they are having an affair or engaging in some vice is one of the few consequences I think we could legally impose upon the refs that are abusing us. Fighting back is our best chance to get a truce. Taking the abuse won't stop it.
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:52 PM   #16
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Are you for real?
Yes I don't think Saints fans should allow referees to abuse us forever with no consequences. I think we should create consequences for them using any legal means.
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:55 PM   #17
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Yes I don't think Saints fans should allow referees to abuse us forever with no consequences. I think we should create consequences for them using any legal means.
Okie dokie then. I wish you and yours good luck with those windmills.
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Old 09-21-2022, 03:01 PM   #18
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Okie dokie then. I wish you and yours good luck with those windmills.
And I wish you good luck waiting for those totally unbiased but of course occasionally debatable calls to start breaking our way in the 4th quarter and playoffs. Should be happening any time now right? We are due? But still, might want to invest in a comfy chair while you wait.
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Old 09-21-2022, 03:11 PM   #19
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
And I wish you good luck waiting for those totally unbiased but of course occasionally debatable calls to start breaking our way in the 4th quarter and playoffs. Should be happening any time now right? We are due? But still, might want to invest in a comfy chair while you wait.
I repeat, EVERY fanbase have people that believe the same biases exist against their teams and they all have some instance in which they base that bias. Are you right and all of them wrong? Or are all of you right? Or are all of you wrong?

We, as humans, tend to forget those things that work out in our favor as opposed to those things that cause us pain. Point of view is powerful in the way we see events.

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Old 09-21-2022, 03:25 PM   #20
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Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I repeat, EVERY fanbase have people that believe the same biases exist against their teams and they all have some instance in which they base that bias. Are you right and all of them wrong? Or are all of you right? Or are all of you wrong?

We, as humans, tend to forget those things that work out in our favor as opposed to those things that cause us pain. Point of view is powerful in the way we see events.
The statistics are right: the Saints have finished 30th, 31st, 32nd, and tied for 31st in penalties called (both accepted and declined) against their opponents in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 20201. Four straight seasons.

We, as humans, tend to be divided into individuals who are submissive and accept abuse and individuals who are assertive and fight abuse. Enjoy your comfy chair. When the bad things happen to you, tell yourself you deserve them, and its all perspective. I will continue to feel we don't deserve these bad calls. You can side with the Falcons Fans that we do.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eir-opponents/
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