Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees?

AsylumGuido · 09-21-2022, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

The statistics are right: the Saints have finished 30th, 31st, 32nd, and tied for 31st in penalties called (both accepted and declined) against their opponents in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 20201. Four straight seasons.

We, as humans, tend to be divided into individuals who are submissive and accept abuse and individuals who are assertive and fight abuse. Enjoy your comfy chair. When the bad things happen to you, tell yourself you deserve them, and its all perspective. I will continue to feel we don't deserve these bad calls. You can side with the Falcons Fans that we do.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eir-opponents/

I'm well aware of those statistics and posted that same article myself soon after it was published. I would like to know who the other teams were that were ranked 30th thru 32nd those years. Is there a bias against them, as well? Or can all of these teams be classified as undisciplined?

To give you some credit, I must admit that you at least are simply suspecting a bias and not an organized plot to orchestrate outcomes of Saints games as some infer. When referring to the "non-call" versus the Rams I spoke of the possibility of an unintentional bias based upon the home state of several of the key officials involved. I do not believe they intentionally ignored the call just to ensure that the Saints lost, but I could understand a hesitancy in throwing a flag at a critical point in the game. Could they have felt some fear of reprisal from their own neighbors? I don't know. Maybe. I actually saw it more as a case of incompetency. Instead of making a call at a critical moment they froze. They screwed up. But, they have their comfy REAL jobs to return to the following Monday.

BakoSaint · 09-22-2022, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm well aware of those statistics and posted that same article myself soon after it was published. I would like to know who the other teams were that were ranked 30th thru 32nd those years. Is there a bias against them, as well? Or can all of these teams be classified as undisciplined?

To give you some credit, I must admit that you at least are simply suspecting a bias and not an organized plot to orchestrate outcomes of Saints games as some infer. When referring to the "non-call" versus the Rams I spoke of the possibility of an unintentional bias based upon the home state of several of the key officials involved. I do not believe they intentionally ignored the call just to ensure that the Saints lost, but I could understand a hesitancy in throwing a flag at a critical point in the game. Could they have felt some fear of reprisal from their own neighbors? I don't know. Maybe. I actually saw it more as a case of incompetency. Instead of making a call at a critical moment they froze. They screwed up. But, they have their comfy REAL jobs to return to the following Monday.

Obviously other teams also finished 30th-32nd in penalties called against their opponents each year. The bottom 3 in a league of 32 is essentially they bottom 10%, somebody has to finish in the bottom 10% of getting penalties called against their opponents just by chance, even if their opponents are random, its simply 1 in 10. The thing is, for the Saints, 1 in 10 has happened 4 years in a row. Thats 1 in 10 in 10 in 10 in 10. Thats 1 in 10,000. The pft article I quote calculates the odds of this happening by chance at 0.0077% or about 1 in 12,000, so similar to my simple math. Thats not likely to be chance. The people who believe it is chance must believe that every other team, as we have played through the league, has suddenly become angels who commit few penalties the week they play us, year after year, highly consistently. Its much easier to believe some refs are bias.

I don't think there is an organized conspiracy per say but I also don't think its unconscious bias per say. I think if you could hook up Roger Goodell to a polygraph and ask him if he may have ever done anything that could have given refs or league employees who work with refs the hint or indication that some teams should be treated more harshly and others less harshly for personal or economic reasons and he answered no he would fail that lie detector test. I don't think he gave an order or wrote a memo, but I think he gave a few hints in private that he ain't wearing any black and gold on any sundays.

I think if you gave refs a polygraph and asked them if they have ever made harsher calls against a team because they don't like that team, don't like that teams fans, felt insulted by that team disagreeing with previous calls, or felt pressure from the league to favor certain teams, and they said no, at least a significant number would fail that polygraph, while others would pass, but some of them might fail a followup asking whether they suspect any of their colleagues might have. I don't think there is an over determination to fix the outcome of games, but I think there is a conscious bias in a lot of individuals to protect the shield and protect the whistle in ways that mean holding different teams to different standards, and which ultimately tilts the outcome of many close games to favored teams, and most of all against the most statistically disfavored team since the no call, the team that both blamed the refs for tainting the superbowl and overturned not one but a handful of Roger Goodell's treasured player suspensions in bountygate, public enemy #1.

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 11:39 AM

Bump for London game. Another Goodell - ref collaboration. Only true Falcons fans can deny it.

darksoul35 · 10-02-2022, 06:46 PM

They strike again. I really thought this BS would be over when Payton left but thats 3 out of our 4 games that have been decided by the refs. I know they make mistakes every game but it is so one sided with us and always in a big spot in the game. Im just venting and I have no idea what the answer is but it is very frustrating. I know every teams fans think this way but its so obvious with us.

nola_swammi · 10-02-2022, 08:09 PM

They should have oversight at the main office to override a bad call (like the hand to the face call and pass interference). If they can call down for ejection they should be able to override these obvious game deciding penalties

The Dude · 10-02-2022, 08:45 PM

Honestly think it’s a ploy to get attendance down and move the organization to a bigger market. New Orleans isn’t the destination it used to be for visiting teams fans either. The crime rate here isn’t helping things. In 10 years the Saints will be somewhere else. Hopefully San Antonio since I’m only an hour and a half away.

Boston Saint · 10-02-2022, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

They should have oversight at the main office to override a bad call (like the hand to the face call and pass interference). If they can call down for ejection they should be able to override these obvious game deciding penalties

If they had that they couldn’t control the game.

hitta · 10-02-2022, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Honestly think it’s a ploy to get attendance down and move the organization to a bigger market. New Orleans isn’t the destination it used to be for visiting teams fans either. The crime rate here isn’t helping things. In 10 years the Saints will be somewhere else. Hopefully San Antonio since I’m only an hour and a half away.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me. After seeing that game, I am baffled as to why the refs always seem to be on the wrong side of calls that determine games for us. We win that game if it's not for the refs. We would have a winning record if not for the refs. I don't think we are a good team honestly, but somehow we've managed to hang in games and should have won them. We're getting screwed badly.

Boston Saint · 10-03-2022, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

It honestly wouldn't surprise me. After seeing that game, I am baffled as to why the refs always seem to be on the wrong side of calls that determine games for us. We win that game if it's not for the refs. We would have a winning record if not for the refs. I don't think we are a good team honestly, but somehow we've managed to hang in games and should have won them. We're getting screwed badly.

I can’t understand why people won’t accept this. Would we be undefeated if we had 0’turnovers? Yes. Would we be undefeated if we were more disciplined? Without a doubt. Would we be undefeated with better line, QB, and special teams play? Absolutely. Would we be undefeated if the refs didn’t screw us?

Hell friggin YES!

saintsfan1976 · 10-03-2022, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I can’t understand why people won’t accept this. Would we be undefeated if we had 0’turnovers? Yes. Would we be undefeated if we were more disciplined? Without a doubt. Would we be undefeated with better line, QB, and special teams play? Absolutely. Would we be undefeated if the refs didn’t screw us?

Hell friggin YES!

You sound like me. Someone who fully expected us to be 3-1, possibly undefeated, instead of 1-3 and now looking at every single play with frustration.

09-21-2022, 03:56 PM	#21
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,046	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by BakoSaint The statistics are right: the Saints have finished 30th, 31st, 32nd, and tied for 31st in penalties called (both accepted and declined) against their opponents in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 20201. Four straight seasons. We, as humans, tend to be divided into individuals who are submissive and accept abuse and individuals who are assertive and fight abuse. Enjoy your comfy chair. When the bad things happen to you, tell yourself you deserve them, and its all perspective. I will continue to feel we don't deserve these bad calls. You can side with the Falcons Fans that we do. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eir-opponents/ I'm well aware of those statistics and posted that same article myself soon after it was published. I would like to know who the other teams were that were ranked 30th thru 32nd those years. Is there a bias against them, as well? Or can all of these teams be classified as undisciplined? To give you some credit, I must admit that you at least are simply suspecting a bias and not an organized plot to orchestrate outcomes of Saints games as some infer. When referring to the "non-call" versus the Rams I spoke of the possibility of an unintentional bias based upon the home state of several of the key officials involved. I do not believe they intentionally ignored the call just to ensure that the Saints lost, but I could understand a hesitancy in throwing a flag at a critical point in the game. Could they have felt some fear of reprisal from their own neighbors? I don't know. Maybe. I actually saw it more as a case of incompetency. Instead of making a call at a critical moment they froze. They screwed up. But, they have their comfy REAL jobs to return to the following Monday.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

09-22-2022, 12:11 AM	#22
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,090	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm well aware of those statistics and posted that same article myself soon after it was published. I would like to know who the other teams were that were ranked 30th thru 32nd those years. Is there a bias against them, as well? Or can all of these teams be classified as undisciplined? To give you some credit, I must admit that you at least are simply suspecting a bias and not an organized plot to orchestrate outcomes of Saints games as some infer. When referring to the "non-call" versus the Rams I spoke of the possibility of an unintentional bias based upon the home state of several of the key officials involved. I do not believe they intentionally ignored the call just to ensure that the Saints lost, but I could understand a hesitancy in throwing a flag at a critical point in the game. Could they have felt some fear of reprisal from their own neighbors? I don't know. Maybe. I actually saw it more as a case of incompetency. Instead of making a call at a critical moment they froze. They screwed up. But, they have their comfy REAL jobs to return to the following Monday. Obviously other teams also finished 30th-32nd in penalties called against their opponents each year. The bottom 3 in a league of 32 is essentially they bottom 10%, somebody has to finish in the bottom 10% of getting penalties called against their opponents just by chance, even if their opponents are random, its simply 1 in 10. The thing is, for the Saints, 1 in 10 has happened 4 years in a row. Thats 1 in 10 in 10 in 10 in 10. Thats 1 in 10,000. The pft article I quote calculates the odds of this happening by chance at 0.0077% or about 1 in 12,000, so similar to my simple math. Thats not likely to be chance. The people who believe it is chance must believe that every other team, as we have played through the league, has suddenly become angels who commit few penalties the week they play us, year after year, highly consistently. Its much easier to believe some refs are bias. I don't think there is an organized conspiracy per say but I also don't think its unconscious bias per say. I think if you could hook up Roger Goodell to a polygraph and ask him if he may have ever done anything that could have given refs or league employees who work with refs the hint or indication that some teams should be treated more harshly and others less harshly for personal or economic reasons and he answered no he would fail that lie detector test. I don't think he gave an order or wrote a memo, but I think he gave a few hints in private that he ain't wearing any black and gold on any sundays. I think if you gave refs a polygraph and asked them if they have ever made harsher calls against a team because they don't like that team, don't like that teams fans, felt insulted by that team disagreeing with previous calls, or felt pressure from the league to favor certain teams, and they said no, at least a significant number would fail that polygraph, while others would pass, but some of them might fail a followup asking whether they suspect any of their colleagues might have. I don't think there is an over determination to fix the outcome of games, but I think there is a conscious bias in a lot of individuals to protect the shield and protect the whistle in ways that mean holding different teams to different standards, and which ultimately tilts the outcome of many close games to favored teams, and most of all against the most statistically disfavored team since the no call, the team that both blamed the refs for tainting the superbowl and overturned not one but a handful of Roger Goodell's treasured player suspensions in bountygate, public enemy #1. Rugby Saint II likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,090

10-02-2022, 11:39 AM	#23
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,090	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Bump for London game. Another Goodell - ref collaboration. Only true Falcons fans can deny it.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,090

10-02-2022, 06:46 PM	#24
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? They strike again. I really thought this BS would be over when Payton left but thats 3 out of our 4 games that have been decided by the refs. I know they make mistakes every game but it is so one sided with us and always in a big spot in the game. Im just venting and I have no idea what the answer is but it is very frustrating. I know every teams fans think this way but its so obvious with us. Rugby Saint II and Boston Saint like this.
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041

10-02-2022, 08:09 PM	#25
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,627	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? They should have oversight at the main office to override a bad call (like the hand to the face call and pass interference). If they can call down for ejection they should be able to override these obvious game deciding penalties

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10-02-2022, 08:45 PM	#26
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Honestly think it’s a ploy to get attendance down and move the organization to a bigger market. New Orleans isn’t the destination it used to be for visiting teams fans either. The crime rate here isn’t helping things. In 10 years the Saints will be somewhere else. Hopefully San Antonio since I’m only an hour and a half away.
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10-02-2022, 08:46 PM	#27
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by nola_swammi They should have oversight at the main office to override a bad call (like the hand to the face call and pass interference). If they can call down for ejection they should be able to override these obvious game deciding penalties If they had that they couldn’t control the game.

10-02-2022, 11:50 PM	#28
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,318	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by The Dude Honestly think it’s a ploy to get attendance down and move the organization to a bigger market. New Orleans isn’t the destination it used to be for visiting teams fans either. The crime rate here isn’t helping things. In 10 years the Saints will be somewhere else. Hopefully San Antonio since I’m only an hour and a half away. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. After seeing that game, I am baffled as to why the refs always seem to be on the wrong side of calls that determine games for us. We win that game if it's not for the refs. We would have a winning record if not for the refs. I don't think we are a good team honestly, but somehow we've managed to hang in games and should have won them. We're getting screwed badly. Rugby Saint II and Boston Saint like this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,318

10-03-2022, 07:05 AM	#29
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by hitta It honestly wouldn't surprise me. After seeing that game, I am baffled as to why the refs always seem to be on the wrong side of calls that determine games for us. We win that game if it's not for the refs. We would have a winning record if not for the refs. I don't think we are a good team honestly, but somehow we've managed to hang in games and should have won them. We're getting screwed badly. I can’t understand why people won’t accept this. Would we be undefeated if we had 0’turnovers? Yes. Would we be undefeated if we were more disciplined? Without a doubt. Would we be undefeated with better line, QB, and special teams play? Absolutely. Would we be undefeated if the refs didn’t screw us? Hell friggin YES! saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.

10-03-2022, 07:57 AM	#30
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Could We Crowdfund Private Investigators Against Corrupt NFL Referees? Originally Posted by Boston Saint I can’t understand why people won’t accept this. Would we be undefeated if we had 0’turnovers? Yes. Would we be undefeated if we were more disciplined? Without a doubt. Would we be undefeated with better line, QB, and special teams play? Absolutely. Would we be undefeated if the refs didn’t screw us? Hell friggin YES! You sound like me. Someone who fully expected us to be 3-1, possibly undefeated, instead of 1-3 and now looking at every single play with frustration.