Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings

TheOak · 10-03-2022, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS.

Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty.

We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad..

Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline.
Denver (2-2) 37
New Orleans (1-3) 34
Seattle (2-2) 32
NYGiants (3-1) 32
Arrizona (2-2) 30
Tennessee (2-2) 29
Dallas (3-1) 27
Cleveland (2-2) 26
Philadelphia (4-0) 26

Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers..

BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost.

Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy?
Alex Kemp
Shawn Hachuli
Carl Cheffers
Clete Blakeman

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 12:02 PM

We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers.

llaguardia81 · 10-02-2022, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers.

We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

BakoSaint · 10-02-2022, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by llaguardia81

We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

That could happen but it would likely be a mid-round pick. The nice thing about the NFL is that normally the teams that really need a QB badly finish with really bad records so they get very high first round picks, at least 5th-10th, which really helps in getting the QB you want. However, usually the teams willing to trade for a new head coach have potential but are underachieving, teams with .500 type records, so they don't have those picks. Had we kept our pick, we would be on track to draft top 5-10 at a 1-3 record which is perfectly in line Dennis Allen's two full seasons as head coach at 4-12. Maybe we can find a value QB in the mid 1st or trade up, but that relies on someone paying up for Payton and us not getting squeezed by Payton saying he only wants to go to one team and that team not having or offering a 1st rounder. Maybe Payton will want to go to Denver to fix Russell Wilson but they don't have a 1st rounder.

turbo_dog · 10-02-2022, 12:06 PM

I need blood pressure medicine
The defense kept the team in the game, AGAIN
Olave continues to impress and improve
I'd like to see Olave and Hardy on the field at the same time. Who could cover both of them streaking down the field?
The offensive line had fewer plays where it looked like they were lost
Dalton had about three passes that could have been pick 6
Good job by Tre, Quez, and Traut today
Finally getting some pressure on the QB by the defensive line
Three inches from OT

Rsanders24 · 10-02-2022, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by turbo_dog

I need blood pressure medicine

The defense kept the team in the game, AGAIN

Olave continues to impress and improve

I'd like to see Olave and Hardy on the field at the same time. Who could cover both of them streaking down the field?

The offensive line had fewer plays where it looked like they were lost

Dalton had about three passes that could have been pick 6

Good job by Tre, Quez, and Traut today

Finally getting some pressure on the QB by the defensive line

Three inches from OT

This is spot on…even though Traut is a huge liability in the blocking scheme.

While Dalton played well enough to win, he like Winston is a gun slinger and made several questionable throws that just happened to not be intercepted.

Watching a few other games today really made me see how poor our game planning is on offense. This team even without AK and MT should be able to make plays and we really failed again to do so.

jnormand · 10-02-2022, 12:41 PM

Good game. I like the offense in this game more with Dalton then with Goofball. I'm sure JW will get the start next week. If he sucks again, I hope they pull him quickly.

I like seeing Murray. Big dude. Had some nice runs. Good to have him back.

Defense played well.

I still think we're ****ed this season. 1-3 isn't the end of the world, but it's a big hole to dig out of with backup caliber QBs and one specifically that can't read defenses.

Oh well.

K Major · 10-02-2022, 12:51 PM

Murray > Ingram.

4 turnovers in 4 games.

The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him.

Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand.

No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad.

hitta · 10-04-2022, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Murray > Ingram.

4 turnovers in 4 games.

The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him.

Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand.

No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad.

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time.

K Major · 10-04-2022, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years.

10-03-2022, 06:20 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by Boston Saint We can play poorly/suck and it still be the refs. Part of those 10 penalties were undeserved. Part of those 10 penalties should also go to the Vikings and they aren’t. Someone pointed out that the vikings weren’t called for a single holding penalty of offense or defense. Really? Give me a break. That doesn’t happen in a football game. The offense and special teams have played like crap at times no doubt. Bad turnovers absolutely. But to say the refs aren’t part of it is BS. Blame the Refs all you like, I believe in liberty. We are not 1-3 due to penalties, and I never said the Refs were not bad.. Top 25% of the NFL in Penalties We are the only losing team because we are bad, we have no discipline. Denver (2-2) 37 New Orleans (1-3) 34 Seattle (2-2) 32 NYGiants (3-1) 32 Arrizona (2-2) 30 Tennessee (2-2) 29 Dallas (3-1) 27 Cleveland (2-2) 26 Philadelphia (4-0) 26 Are we a league worst -7 in turnover ratio because of the refs? Please answer specifically because we have played 4 games and have 11 turnovers. Just so happens we are the only team with double digit turnovers.. BTW The Vikings are tied for the second lowest penalties in the league with 16 Total. We had ZERO penalties on Defense against Carolina last week. No one claimed BS. The Saints did not have a single offensive holding penalty against Atlanta or Tampa Bay. No one claimed BS. You are correct that holding goes on every play but we have been the beneficiary of no calls and still lost. Careful with the 'we are losing because of the Refs'... All four of these entire officiating crews are in on the conspiracy? Alex Kemp Shawn Hachuli Carl Cheffers Clete Blakeman saintsfan1976 and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-02-2022, 12:02 PM	#2
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers. MarchingOn likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408

10-02-2022, 01:18 PM	#3
llaguardia81 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 443 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by BakoSaint We should stick with Dalton regardless next week. He provided some spark. But even if he is better than Winston probably neither is good enough to get a ring, especially playing 11 vs 16 with the refs, and even if one was good enough, neither project to be durable and stay healthy at their age/condition with our oline. We probably need a qb and to get that we probably need a high first round pick and possibly more to trade up which means waiting until 2024. At least maybe Dalton can give us consistent enough qb play to properly evaluate our talent as long as he can stay on the field. Maybe he can make Thomas or Hill look good enough to trade for something. If Dalton has ups and downs, as we would expect, we can give winston another look when he is fully healthy, but I dont know if he will ever stay fully healthy when our guards are a guy who is there because of his draft position and another guy who is there because of his contract commitment, not anyone who is there because they are good at blocking pass rushers. We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft.

10-02-2022, 01:39 PM	#4
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by llaguardia81 We wouldn't have to wait until 24. If Sean comes of out retirement and coaches again next year, whichever team that would want him would automatically have to hand over their first round pick in this upcoming draft. That could happen but it would likely be a mid-round pick. The nice thing about the NFL is that normally the teams that really need a QB badly finish with really bad records so they get very high first round picks, at least 5th-10th, which really helps in getting the QB you want. However, usually the teams willing to trade for a new head coach have potential but are underachieving, teams with .500 type records, so they don't have those picks. Had we kept our pick, we would be on track to draft top 5-10 at a 1-3 record which is perfectly in line Dennis Allen's two full seasons as head coach at 4-12. Maybe we can find a value QB in the mid 1st or trade up, but that relies on someone paying up for Payton and us not getting squeezed by Payton saying he only wants to go to one team and that team not having or offering a 1st rounder. Maybe Payton will want to go to Denver to fix Russell Wilson but they don't have a 1st rounder.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,408

10-02-2022, 12:06 PM	#5
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,708	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings I need blood pressure medicine The defense kept the team in the game, AGAIN Olave continues to impress and improve I'd like to see Olave and Hardy on the field at the same time. Who could cover both of them streaking down the field? The offensive line had fewer plays where it looked like they were lost Dalton had about three passes that could have been pick 6 Good job by Tre, Quez, and Traut today Finally getting some pressure on the QB by the defensive line Three inches from OT neugey, Rsanders24, Crusader and 1 others like this.

10-02-2022, 05:58 PM	#6
Rsanders24 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, LA. Posts: 1,493	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by turbo_dog I need blood pressure medicine The defense kept the team in the game, AGAIN Olave continues to impress and improve I'd like to see Olave and Hardy on the field at the same time. Who could cover both of them streaking down the field? The offensive line had fewer plays where it looked like they were lost Dalton had about three passes that could have been pick 6 Good job by Tre, Quez, and Traut today Finally getting some pressure on the QB by the defensive line Three inches from OT This is spot on…even though Traut is a huge liability in the blocking scheme. While Dalton played well enough to win, he like Winston is a gun slinger and made several questionable throws that just happened to not be intercepted. Watching a few other games today really made me see how poor our game planning is on offense. This team even without AK and MT should be able to make plays and we really failed again to do so. turbo_dog and K Major like this.

10-02-2022, 12:41 PM	#7
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,773	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Good game. I like the offense in this game more with Dalton then with Goofball. I'm sure JW will get the start next week. If he sucks again, I hope they pull him quickly. I like seeing Murray. Big dude. Had some nice runs. Good to have him back. Defense played well. I still think we're ****ed this season. 1-3 isn't the end of the world, but it's a big hole to dig out of with backup caliber QBs and one specifically that can't read defenses. Oh well. Sinner likes this.

10-02-2022, 12:51 PM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Murray > Ingram. 4 turnovers in 4 games. The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him. Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand. No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad. SmashMouth, Sinner, Rell&Gold and 1 others like this.

10-04-2022, 03:24 PM	#9
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,340	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by K Major Murray > Ingram. 4 turnovers in 4 games. The “rust” excuse is over for our offense. We aren’t very creative with the game plan. Someone tell Pete that LTrain gets STRONGER (avg 5 yard PER CARRY) in the second half & DBs are less likely to tackle him. Then he disappears for a quarter. Ride your hot hand. No discipline (miscues/turnovers) coaching has been bad. This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years. Brady always had a D to fall back on. If you gave Brees a D, he'd won multiple championships and people would be debating on whether he was the best of all time. jnormand likes this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,340

10-04-2022, 03:38 PM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints' close loss to the Vikings Originally Posted by hitta This is life without Sean. People were *****ing about Sean about 5 years ago and were like we needed a reset. Well, this is what that looks like. Sean may have been the best coach in the league. I think Drew and him made the roster look better than it actually was. The D in the last few years has finally come around. It's a shame we couldn't get Brees a defense when he was in his better years.