Week Eight QB Debate

AsylumGuido · 10-25-2022, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season.

In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

TheOak · 10-27-2022, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again.

All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible.

Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters.

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

saintsfan1976 · 10-27-2022, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

Dalton has proven to be better than Jameis at things that matter most - reading defenses, quicker releases, running the offense overall. At least he has so far THIS season.

Yes there were 3 picks last game but two and maybe even one was really his fault.

At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins.

K Major · 10-27-2022, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins.

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Dalton has proven to be better than Jameis at things that matter most - reading defenses, quicker releases, running the offense overall. At least he has so far THIS season.

Yes there were 3 picks last game but two and maybe even one was really his fault.

At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins.

You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned.

The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7nZjf9I6w

saintsfan1976 · 10-27-2022, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned.

The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game.

No I don't. Unless Warner was in the huddle.

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

No I don't. Unless Warner was in the huddle.

Warner has been in a ton of huddles and knows a heck of a lot more than any of us do about what is going on with QB's, receivers, and routes. A whole heck of a lot more. Check out the video.

subguy · 10-28-2022, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned.

The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7nZjf9I6w

Still fighting to prove your right about something you have zero decision in. Winston isn't starting this week, get over it! I know AG, Winston Winston Winston. The folks on the inside actually made a decision. Regardless of what a talking head on TV says about Dalton, he will be the starter this week

Face facts, like it or not, both of the players you have shilled for and built your shrines to, have been a let down this half of the season.

It's okay to be wrong, but it's not okay to never admit it. And it's even less okay to continue to attempt to prove your right when it has been clearly proven, you are wrong.

As I said before the season, and into this season, I hoped you would be right and both of your mancrushes would deliver us a winning season. For that I would gladly eat a plate of crow, but to this point, that isn't the case. My knife, fork, salt & pepper and Tabasco are at the ready.

TheOak · 10-28-2022, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

No that is not what you were saying, I gave you opportunity to clarify and you didn't go there, are you injured? At least Bako has the character to own his ideas, talking to you is like talking to a White House Press Secretary.

"Given opportunity", is the entire faulty premise you have built this BS argument on. Unless you mean by his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the team and coaches have given him multiple opportunities and he has not surprised anyone with any of them.

10-25-2022, 02:20 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,491	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by TheOak Why? Lets not treat it like chances were not afforded him. What, in your mind, constitutes "given a full chance"? Winston has started 10 games for New Orleans, that's more than 1/2 a season. In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch. This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover. Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place. darksoul35 and Big_L like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

10-27-2022, 04:42 AM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch. This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover. Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place. You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again. All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible. Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters. Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not. subguy, SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-27-2022, 10:30 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,491	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by TheOak Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not. This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

10-27-2022, 12:23 PM	#4
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,974 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer. Dalton has proven to be better than Jameis at things that matter most - reading defenses, quicker releases, running the offense overall. At least he has so far THIS season. Yes there were 3 picks last game but two and maybe even one was really his fault. At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins. K Major likes this.

10-27-2022, 12:36 PM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,740 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 At this point, I 'aint interested in "fair", I want wins.

10-27-2022, 12:50 PM	#7
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,974 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned. The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game. No I don't. Unless Warner was in the huddle. K Major likes this.

10-27-2022, 12:51 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,491	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 No I don't. Unless Warner was in the huddle. Warner has been in a ton of huddles and knows a heck of a lot more than any of us do about what is going on with QB's, receivers, and routes. A whole heck of a lot more. Check out the video.

10-28-2022, 12:04 AM	#9
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,099	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You need to check out the excellent film study of Dalton in that game done by Kurt Warner that I believe neugey posted a couple of days ago. All three picks were his fault. The one off Callaway's facemask was thrown way too early in the route. According to Warner the route required Callaway to continue to the far hash before expecting the throw. Dalton delivered it soon after the cut and about five yards to soon. The throw was in Callaway's face before he hardly got his head turned. The one in the end zone was caused by hesitation by Dalton. Warner pointed out that he did a "hitch" before releasing the ball that gave the coverage time to get there. This wasn't a hatchet job either by Warner. He said he likes Dalton, but they were all his fault in that game. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr7nZjf9I6w Still fighting to prove your right about something you have zero decision in. Winston isn't starting this week, get over it! I know AG, Winston Winston Winston. The folks on the inside actually made a decision. Regardless of what a talking head on TV says about Dalton, he will be the starter this week Face facts, like it or not, both of the players you have shilled for and built your shrines to, have been a let down this half of the season. It's okay to be wrong, but it's not okay to never admit it. And it's even less okay to continue to attempt to prove your right when it has been clearly proven, you are wrong. As I said before the season, and into this season, I hoped you would be right and both of your mancrushes would deliver us a winning season. For that I would gladly eat a plate of crow, but to this point, that isn't the case. My knife, fork, salt & pepper and Tabasco are at the ready. iceshack149 and K Major like this.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

10-28-2022, 06:21 AM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer. No that is not what you were saying, I gave you opportunity to clarify and you didn't go there, are you injured? At least Bako has the character to own his ideas, talking to you is like talking to a White House Press Secretary. "Given opportunity", is the entire faulty premise you have built this BS argument on. Unless you mean by his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the team and coaches have given him multiple opportunities and he has not surprised anyone with any of them. iceshack149, saintsfan1976 and K Major like this.
	Last edited by TheOak; 10-28-2022 at 08:45 AM..