Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

I'm becoming concerned about re-signing Elliss. He's going to become 28 next season so this is his one chance to captalize on getting a lucrative long term contract.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Exactly... it took a while to develop him. Even with that, don't expect a home team discount, not that he would break the bank based on his prior production.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

All this talk about "punching the ball out" of the Star Running Back's hands, being a perfectly executed defensive play, and no fault of the Ball Carrier, or the COACHING of the Ball Carrier... Nah. Way back in the day, we had Coach punching the ball so hard, we would puke. That was fundamental stuff. We were COACHED to HOLD THE DAMN BALL.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Focusing a player is not a binary decision. I said nothing about replacing him.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Then I guess I have completely missed your point. Why exactly do you expect Allen to waste valuable time by bringing in scrub kickers for a tryout which you have already tried out if you have no plan on replacing your kicker?

:confused:

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Yeah, after all a 6 year All-pro with over 1,000 carries has to be told not to fumble 🙄.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Not sure why Pete Carmichael waited so long to start utilizing a "threat" in Shaheed.

Interesting stat line on Rashid in the Niners game :

"Shaheed converted a first down on all three of his touches against the San Francisco 49ers last Sunday. He caught a 35-yard reception on 2nd-and-6, followed by an 18-yard pickup on 3rd-and-3. And he also took a carry off the left end for a 6-yard gain on 2nd-and-5. He’s touched the ball 10 times on offense and either converted a first down or scored a touchdown on 8 of them."

Weber St finest!

Again, get your playmakers more involved Pete.

Deonte Harty is gone in 2023.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Um... YEAH. He does. Or haven't you noticed?

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

It’s called personal responsibility. Something lacking from these players and society in general.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Well, That's something that the COACH is legally and ethically responsible for MANAGING (these players, not society in general). You just proved my point. Thanks.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

If you think so

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

It's not just what I think. It is in the literal/legal job description of a Head Coach.

If a Head Coach collects a hefty paycheck to stand on the sidelines and watch (with a "deer in the headlights" stare) millionaires who are under his care shoot themselves in the foot on the field, then the Fans had better find a new activity to invest in on Sundays.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

It says in the legal job description that Allen is Responsible for fumbles. Ok.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Coaches' legal Duties:

Plan the activity properly. ...
Provide proper instruction. ...
Provide a safe physical environment. ...
Provide adequate and proper equipment. ...
Match your athletes according to size, physical maturity, skill level and experience.
Evaluate athletes for injury and incapacity. ...
Supervise the activity closely ...

***MOTIVATE and MAKE ANY AND ALL NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS to maximize Players' performance/productivity.

PERIOD. ("OK")

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

So nothing about fumbles. Ok.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Supervise the activity closely ...

***MOTIVATE and MAKE ANY AND ALL NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS to maximize Players' performance/productivity.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

I read it the first time…fumbles aren’t mentioned. I doubt there is a player on the team including Kamara himself who holds Allen responsible for KAMARA’S fumbles in that game.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

If my Boss is responsible for teaching, motivating and supervising me to carry something precious across a line, and to NOT DROP IT, or to NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO PUNCH IT OUT OF MY HANDS... and I continued to DROP IT, especially in critical situations... my Boss would have to MAKE ADJUSTMENTS in my level of "personal responsibility", or REPLACE ME, to better achieve his team's objective. He (or She) wouldn't be able to just shrug his shoulders and throw his hands up in the air, and still call himself a Boss.

The Head Coach doesn't get to simply gaze onto the field and watch his team "fumble" away critical opportunities, and do nothing about it, week after week... That's NOT what he's getting paid to do. It's a Head Coach, not a Mannequin.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

I respectively see it differently. We aren’t talking about a rookie. And we are talking about more responsibilities than simply not fumbling. Kamara is considered one of the best backs and greatest weapons in the game. Allen had him in a position to succeed on a play with a catch near the goal line. It’s the player’s responsibility to execute the play. Part of that is not dropping the ball. Allen isn’t throwing the ball….he’s not catching the ball….he’s not running the ball…and he’s not fumbling the ball. If your answer is to replace Kamara with someone better then good luck with that. If it makes you feel better to blame Allen for everything rather than the players who are making the mistakes the more power to you. If I drop a glass of milk I don’t blame my parents for not teaching me I shouldn’t drop a glass of milk. I blame myself. I’m old enough and experienced enough to know that myself and so does Kamara. Maybe if he was as serious about fumbling as he was about packed elevators he would hold onto the ball.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

As you say: after all, a 6 year All-pro with over 1,000 carries, who "lacks personal responsibility" has to be told not to fumble... ?

OR... The Head Coach should say, "You're a 6 year All-pro with over 1,000 carries, an it's cool if you fumble in critical situations. As a Head Coach, I get to point my finger at your "lack of personal responsibility, and we can lose again next week, and I still get to call myself a Head Coach..."

Nah. If your job is to deliver milk across a line, and you drop it, your Boss is going to have to either change the way you carry your milk, replace you with someone who can hold on to the milk and get it where it needs to be, or continue to LOSE his milk.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

By why do you only focus on what your boss does about it rather than focus on what YOU do about it? Don’t you think you should NOT drop the milk? Don’t you realize that it is a bad thing? Don’t you feel responsible for dropping it? You really need to have someone tell you not to drop the milk?

Are you saying Allen should have benched Kamara for his first quarter fumble?

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

In case you haven't noticed (and I could have saved us both a lot of seemingly wasted energy), I am saying that we have a COACHING problem.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Ok. I don't necessarily disagree. But do you blame Kamara's fumbles on Kamara or on the "coaching". For example, during the Niners game when those balls came out did you say:

"Damn Alvin, hold onto the ball!"

Or

"Damn Allen, why did you not have someone in who wouldn't fumble?!"

Honest question. Not what you think about later, what did you say at the time?

I yelled at Alvin Kamara, not Dennis Allen.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

The Fact is: It is NOT in the HEAD COACHES' Job Description to point "blame" or to deflect in any way, to the Player, when the Players' Performance suffers. It is absolutely on the COACH to work it out with the Player, to make any and all adjustments. As a matter of Fact, it IS in the Coaches' Job Description to redirect ANY and ALL criticism (or deficiency/inconsistency) of ANY Player's Performance, to the Coach himself. It has nothing to do with what I as a Fan says or yells, while I watch the Player and the Team fall apart week after week.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Cool. I’m not a head coach. I can afford to have a more realistic opinion. Do you not want to answer the question I put out? Just wondering. I say all this with respect to your opinions Sinner.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Remember when Ingram fumbled vs the Hawks in 2016?
Payton benched him for the whole game and ran Tim Hightower 30 plus times.

Our players are playing poorly, that's granted, but the coaches aren't showing them any consequences. It's not like this is a new thing, we are -12 in the turnover margin. This hasnt just started, the skill position players have been messing up all year and the coaches still haven't rectified it.

Does that mean Alvin sucks? Nope, because he hasn't really had this issue before, which surely comes down to coaching to be upfront and honest with him and say he needs to protect the ball better or pull him from the game if he's being a detriment to success.

In Payton's world, no one was too big.

Dennis I don't think has the guts to do that, to make a statement and hold the players accountable for their mishaps.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Or is it the ability? He didn’t put this team together. Who in reality would he bench Kamara for? Payton took time to get to that point. And again, why let Kamara off the hook for fumbling? Because he was “scared” of being benched? Well, Payton could bench him before he got a big contract. Allen can’t.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

It just makes me laugh when our best offensive player fumbles twice and Dennis Allen is blamed…..I admit I could be 100% wrong. But that makes no sense to me.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Honestly, I think people would have more respect for Allen, if he made a move like that, to show that no one is without accountability.

What's the worst they could do, fire him? Thats likely going to happen if the team doesn't show improvement anyway, go for broke, make the team realise that no one is too good to not get an earful.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

But for who dizz? You are trying to win every game as a head coach. People are saying Kamara isn't involved enough. He fumbles on the first drive and you are gonna sit him for Ingram to make a point?

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Again, I'm not blaming Allen for Alvin's fumbles.
I'm blaming Allen for the fact that the offense has been inept all season, and he's made zero changes.

If Alvin fumbles, show him it's not okay and sit him.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Payton wouldn't care for who, as evidenced when he benched Ingram for Hightower.

The message should be, you want to get more playing time, you do the job right and hang onto the ball.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Cool. I think some do blame Kamara's fumbles on Allen. As well as other things that aren't his fault.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Refresh my memory. When is this point you re referring to ?

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

It was 31/10/2016.

Based on our record, I want to say week 8?

Ingram fumbled in the first quarter which Earl Thomas returned for a TD.
He didn't get another carry after that and Hightower ran 26 times.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

Ok, so in a season that ended up 7-9 on a Halloween game, Payton, who was already established as the HC benched Ingram (whom I believe he drafted).

In my mind that is different from Allen as first year coach who did not draft Kamara trying to stay in the playoff hunt not benching the All Pro Kamara. If he had benched him, to "make a point" then all hell would have come down on his head. He went with Kamara, Kamara let him down.

Re: Observations from the saints Loss to the 49ers
 

I think there's a very fine line, I think both players and coaches are guilty of a lot this season.

In my view, players need to be held accountable for their BS.

On the other hand, a lot of people here say Dalton is awful and he just might be, but only one person makes the call to keep playing him. So that person obviously thinks there's no better player on the roster to take Dalton's spot. Which I think brings in the right for his decision making to be questioned.

I guess it varies on which way you view it.