Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA?

iceshack149 · 12-13-2022, 02:10 PM

This is a tough discussion because of what we as fans are not able to witness. It would appear that Allen isn't the guy for the job and that players (hello Kamara) have given up on him but we aren't privy to what happens during practices, in meeting rooms, and conversations on the sidelines during game days. We have a very limited view. Sean Payton had multiple seasons of 7-9 outcomes but was given grace because he brought a championship to New Orleans. This is a "What have you done for me?" business so Allen gets a short leash.

For what it's worth, I was all for bringing in Allen because he was head coach for one game when Payton was out with a virus that he was vaccinated for and whipped the Bucs 9-0. I figured that continuity and previous HC experience would make him the best option in New Orleans. I might've been wrong but I just don't know to be honest.
I think I know but I don't know. And I never will.

dizzle88 · 12-13-2022, 03:16 PM

When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff.

Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton.

However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing.

All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams.

We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that.

That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers.

Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive.
Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff.

Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton.

However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing.

All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams.

We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that.

That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers.

Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive.
Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion.

You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

dizzle88 · 12-13-2022, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption.

And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption.

Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2022, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.

Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2022, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did.

I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

dizzle88 · 12-14-2022, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen?

For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus.

The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent.

Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful.

SmashMouth · 12-13-2022, 11:13 PM

YouTube (Short URL)

K Major · 12-14-2022, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

https://youtu.be/VmCP5gnf0Do

Check out timestamp starting around 39:30 :

Nick was pretty adamant that if SP was still head coach our QB would have been Teddy B & drafted Kenny Pickett. Interesting ...

IDK, I'm kinda glad we selected Chris Olave (he's the truth) & Penning (jury still out but I like his ceiling potential) though.

Good interview.

12-13-2022, 02:10 PM	#1
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,441 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? This is a tough discussion because of what we as fans are not able to witness. It would appear that Allen isn't the guy for the job and that players (hello Kamara) have given up on him but we aren't privy to what happens during practices, in meeting rooms, and conversations on the sidelines during game days. We have a very limited view. Sean Payton had multiple seasons of 7-9 outcomes but was given grace because he brought a championship to New Orleans. This is a "What have you done for me?" business so Allen gets a short leash. For what it's worth, I was all for bringing in Allen because he was head coach for one game when Payton was out with a virus that he was vaccinated for and whipped the Bucs 9-0. I figured that continuity and previous HC experience would make him the best option in New Orleans. I might've been wrong but I just don't know to be honest. I think I know but I don't know. And I never will. AsylumGuido, dizzle88 and Boston Saint like this.
	"...it's good to have friends, no matter where they are."--JOESAM2002

12-13-2022, 03:16 PM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,546	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff. Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton. However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing. All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams. We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that. That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers. Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive. Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion. iceshack149, SmashMouth and Sinner like this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

12-13-2022, 03:30 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,762	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 When DA was appointed, I watched the press conference and was convinced we'd made the right move. He just sounded like a motivated guy that would demand the best, especially following on from Payton and being on that staff. Then he made it apparent that WR position needed to be upgraded, I was thrilled because that was one of my biggest annoyances about Payton. However Allen, then let way too much defensive talent walk for nothing or next to nothing. All of the guys that got interceptions for this D, are still getting interceptions, just for other teams. We have what 3 or 4 interceptions on the season from the entire squad? Players Allen let walk have more than that. That, is why the cap is so important. Had the FO not backed this team into a corner money-wise, we would have been able to keep the guys that deserved to get paid. But instead, we are left with guys in the secondary that are afraid to hit and can't generate turnovers. Brees and Payton hid a lot of this teams deficiencies for years, which meant the cap situation didn't look as bad, because we were still competitive. Now we are not, now we need cap space and they need to blank slate this team to achieve it, in my opinion. You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source.

12-13-2022, 03:35 PM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,546	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You are making the assumption, diz, that Allen was/is making the personnel decisions. I don't believe that's the case. Sean Payton earned that right after years of success. I believe that all personnel moves post Payton have come exclusively through the front office and continue to come from that source. It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption. And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did. Sinner and K Major like this.

12-13-2022, 03:46 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,762	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 It's fine you don't believe that's the case, that's your assumption. Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however.

12-14-2022, 10:15 AM	#6
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,056 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Given the fact that it is extremely rare for any head coach to be the personnel man, as well, I feel fairly confident my assumption is accurate in the case of a new head coach with zero experience in that decision making process. Besides Payton and Belichick, Mike Holmgren is possibly the only other that may make those decisions. Believe what you wish, however. Dennis isn't some "new head coach". He's worked in this organization 16 years so I doubt the front office was going against DA's advice. Especially when it came to defensive personnel. iceshack149 and K Major like this.

12-13-2022, 03:52 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,762	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by dizzle88 And regardless, the point still stands. The team needs cap space to keep the players that made this team competitive. Because this type of season happens when they don't. Allen is not a good enough coach to hide the teams deficiencies like Payton did. I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit.

12-14-2022, 03:49 AM	#8
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,546	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I agree that Allen isn't anywhere near as good a coach as was Payton. As for cap space, the team had/has plenty of cap space available to retain those players, but decided to let them go, or in the case of Ceedy Duce, outright got rid of him. Coming into next season the Saints have over $100 million in convertible cap space available for Loomis and Company to hopefully make some good moves after covering the planned deficit. So my problem with that is then, who's making these decisions, if not Allen? For the price we paid Mathieu and Maye, we could have just kept Marcus Williams, because neither of those players are anywhere near Marcus. The team also let Trey Hendrickson go, and whilst he isn't a physical specimen like Davenport is, he was consistent. Seeing this team not being able to sack even the most static QB's is painful. iceshack149, SmashMouth and Sinner like this.

12-14-2022, 09:16 AM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,844 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton and Brady Teaming Up in NOLA? Originally Posted by SmashMouth https://youtu.be/VmCP5gnf0Do Check out timestamp starting around 39:30 : Nick was pretty adamant that if SP was still head coach our QB would have been Teddy B & drafted Kenny Pickett. Interesting ... IDK, I'm kinda glad we selected Chris Olave (he's the truth) & Penning (jury still out but I like his ceiling potential) though. Good interview.