What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB?

TheOak · 01-30-2023, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Had to look up the contract situation.
https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/

Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF.

Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret?

I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path.

If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through.

My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now.

1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return.
2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently.

There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package

.

A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick.

AsylumGuido · 01-30-2023, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick.

Really? Where are Belichick's actual contract details? I haven't been able to find them. Can you post your link to those actual open contract details?

How Much Does the Bill Belichick Contract Pay, and How Long Will the Patriots Coach Be In New England?

by Tim Crean
Published on
December 18, 2022

While the money aspect of the Bill Belichick contract has been widely reported, the length of the deal is unknown. There are currently no credible reports as to the number of years on Belichick’s deal, which shouldn’t come as a surprise in regard to the notoriously private coach and organization.

_________________________________________________________

Yes, "widely" reported but how "accurately" reported. As Jeff Duncan said, Payton was actually making $7-$8 annually more than his "reported" salary under his contract with the Saints. But, still, those details are not known.

No NFL coach's contracts are public knowledge. Any details have to be "leaked" by one party or another, either the team or the coach/agent. Nobody else is privy.

SmashMouth · 01-30-2023, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path.

If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through.

My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now.

1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return.
2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently.

There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package .

A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions...

This does open up a few more questions, doesn't it?

AsylumGuido · 01-30-2023, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Thank you for confirming my suspicions...

This does open up a few more questions, doesn't it?

I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it?

It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all.

SmashMouth · 01-30-2023, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path.

If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through.

My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now.

1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return.
2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently.

There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package .

A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it?

It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all.

Everything TheOak stated...

AsylumGuido · 01-30-2023, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Everything TheOak stated...

What did he state that has any relevance to what Allen is getting paid? Perhaps you need to spell that out. He made some sort of assumption that Allen isn't under contract and/or he wasn't given a contract when named head coach. Neither of which can be verified.

The Saints did go through a league mandated interview process prior to naming Allen coach last off-season.

Oak stated nothing but totally unsupported personal theories with no basis in fact. I'm still not getting what y'all are trying to get at here?

TheOak · 01-31-2023, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Perhaps you need to spell that out.

I'll spell a couple things out.

1. "Details" and "in detail" or "detailed" are not synonymous. "In Detail" or "detailed" means everything is defined, "details" can be any number (2 or above, otherwise it would be "detail") of particular items like the fact that we know Belichick 1. has a contract, and 2 it averages $20MM/year. I will assume your math and spelling are on equal level so that = 2 details.

2. I was fairly clear here when I said "I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path." BUT, you need this spelled out so in the underlined portion I equate evidence of the existence of a Head Coaches contact to commitment and the number of years to how deep that commitment runs. Neither existing = no commitment.

I wholeheartedly commend your efforts to keep your distance from me, I hope you do not discontinue this valiant noteworthy cause, it ranks up there with support for Ukrain. No one owes you clarity, it is your responsibility to pierce your fog of confirmation bias, not the other way around. I encourage you to refrain from replying to this and spend the time that you would have wasted doing so looking up cognitive dissonance, Boomerang effect, and Semmelweis reflex.

AsylumGuido · 01-31-2023, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I'll spell a couple things out.

1. "Details" and "in detail" or "detailed" are not synonymous. "In Detail" or "detailed" means everything is defined, "details" can be any number (2 or above, otherwise it would be "detail") of particular items like the fact that we know Belichick 1. has a contract, and 2 it averages $20MM/year. I will assume your math and spelling are on equal level so that = 2 details.

2. I was fairly clear here when I said "I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path." BUT, you need this spelled out so in the underlined portion I equate evidence of the existence of a Head Coaches contact to commitment and the number of years to how deep that commitment runs. Neither existing = no commitment.

I wholeheartedly commend your efforts to keep your distance from me, I hope you do not discontinue this valiant noteworthy cause, it ranks up there with support for Ukrain. No one owes you clarity, it is your responsibility to pierce your fog of confirmation bias, not the other way around. I encourage you to refrain from replying to this and spend the time that you would have wasted doing so looking up cognitive dissonance, Boomerang effect, and Semmelweis reflex.

1.) "Details" differ on what Belichick "contract" actually pays. While some sources estimate $20 million per annum, many others have it at $12.5 million. And none list the length of the contract. Therefore it doesn't show the length of commitment you wish to see from Loomis contract. So why the comparison or contrast?

2.) If you had read some of the postings about coach's contracts you would have noticed that it is fairly common for no details or very few details to be shared at all so your shaky conclusion of "no commitment" due to no contract or number of years is totally invalid.

But, I guess, as long as you believe it and it makes you happy, then so be it.

Moving on now.

mapcow · 01-30-2023, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it?

It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all.

there it is right there, guido admits it.....red as a beet

01-30-2023, 06:44 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Had to look up the contract situation. https://www.fox8live.com/2019/02/04/...-new-contract/ Having a hard time finding his contract details ... WTF. Why is DA's contract detail secret while we have details on SP's contract? What's the dirty little secret? I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path. If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through. My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now. 1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return. 2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently. There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package . A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick. SmashMouth, Sinner, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-30-2023, 07:55 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick. Really? Where are Belichick's actual contract details? I haven't been able to find them. Can you post your link to those actual open contract details? How Much Does the Bill Belichick Contract Pay, and How Long Will the Patriots Coach Be In New England? by Tim Crean Published on December 18, 2022 While the money aspect of the Bill Belichick contract has been widely reported, the length of the deal is unknown. There are currently no credible reports as to the number of years on Belichick’s deal, which shouldn’t come as a surprise in regard to the notoriously private coach and organization. _________________________________________________________ Yes, "widely" reported but how "accurately" reported. As Jeff Duncan said, Payton was actually making $7-$8 annually more than his "reported" salary under his contract with the Saints. But, still, those details are not known. No NFL coach's contracts are public knowledge. Any details have to be "leaked" by one party or another, either the team or the coach/agent. Nobody else is privy.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-30-2023, 09:46 AM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,803 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path. If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through. My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now. 1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return. 2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently. There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package . A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick. Thank you for confirming my suspicions... This does open up a few more questions, doesn't it? Sinner likes this.

01-30-2023, 09:52 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Thank you for confirming my suspicions... This does open up a few more questions, doesn't it? I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it? It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all.

01-30-2023, 10:07 AM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,803 Blog Entries: 29	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak I should have mentioned that... There are none, I started looking for them while I was listening to him accept the position. He was appointed HC without a new contract or an extension of his old contract. I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path. If you want to know Ts&Cs read a contract, if you want to understand intent and strategy you have to stare into the negative space and figure out what isn't there. In this case there is zero commitment or follow through. My best guess is that Dennis Allen is not under new contract for multiple reasons that do not speak well for the quality of DA's head coaching abilities. On paper he was appointed interim-HC for the last year of his 2019 contract. If he is contracted as the new HC, without interviews, this will blow up just as the Frank Reich appointment is in North Carolina right now. 1. The door is left open for a Sean Payton return. 2. Loomis is unsure and wants to see if the market thinks Dennis Allen has any talent. Contractually, Dennis Allen is not the Head Coach of any team presently. There is always the possibility that Loomis's evil plot involves forcing the team that wants Sean Payton to take Dennis Allen as part of the package . A lack of contract details for DA has nothing to do with agents or withheld information, that notion is absurd lol... Agents want it out there as evidence of their negotiation abilities because it is free advertising to get new clients. Owners want it out there as evidence of commitment to attract future talent. Case and point being that the most secretive person in the NFL has his contract details out in the open, Bill Belichick. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it? It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all. Everything TheOak stated... Sinner, halloween 65 and K Major like this.

01-30-2023, 11:24 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Everything TheOak stated... What did he state that has any relevance to what Allen is getting paid? Perhaps you need to spell that out. He made some sort of assumption that Allen isn't under contract and/or he wasn't given a contract when named head coach. Neither of which can be verified. The Saints did go through a league mandated interview process prior to naming Allen coach last off-season. Oak stated nothing but totally unsupported personal theories with no basis in fact. I'm still not getting what y'all are trying to get at here?

01-31-2023, 07:05 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Perhaps you need to spell that out. I'll spell a couple things out. 1. "Details" and "in detail" or "detailed" are not synonymous. "In Detail" or "detailed" means everything is defined, "details" can be any number (2 or above, otherwise it would be "detail") of particular items like the fact that we know Belichick 1. has a contract, and 2 it averages $20MM/year. I will assume your math and spelling are on equal level so that = 2 details. 2. I was fairly clear here when I said "I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path." BUT, you need this spelled out so in the underlined portion I equate evidence of the existence of a Head Coaches contact to commitment and the number of years to how deep that commitment runs. Neither existing = no commitment. I wholeheartedly commend your efforts to keep your distance from me, I hope you do not discontinue this valiant noteworthy cause, it ranks up there with support for Ukrain. No one owes you clarity, it is your responsibility to pierce your fog of confirmation bias, not the other way around. I encourage you to refrain from replying to this and spend the time that you would have wasted doing so looking up cognitive dissonance, Boomerang effect, and Semmelweis reflex.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-31-2023, 08:14 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by TheOak I'll spell a couple things out. 1. "Details" and "in detail" or "detailed" are not synonymous. "In Detail" or "detailed" means everything is defined, "details" can be any number (2 or above, otherwise it would be "detail") of particular items like the fact that we know Belichick 1. has a contract, and 2 it averages $20MM/year. I will assume your math and spelling are on equal level so that = 2 details. 2. I was fairly clear here when I said "I didn't care what they paid him, I wanted to see how committed Loomis was to this path." BUT, you need this spelled out so in the underlined portion I equate evidence of the existence of a Head Coaches contact to commitment and the number of years to how deep that commitment runs. Neither existing = no commitment. I wholeheartedly commend your efforts to keep your distance from me, I hope you do not discontinue this valiant noteworthy cause, it ranks up there with support for Ukrain. No one owes you clarity, it is your responsibility to pierce your fog of confirmation bias, not the other way around. I encourage you to refrain from replying to this and spend the time that you would have wasted doing so looking up cognitive dissonance, Boomerang effect, and Semmelweis reflex. 1.) "Details" differ on what Belichick "contract" actually pays. While some sources estimate $20 million per annum, many others have it at $12.5 million. And none list the length of the contract. Therefore it doesn't show the length of commitment you wish to see from Loomis contract. So why the comparison or contrast? 2.) If you had read some of the postings about coach's contracts you would have noticed that it is fairly common for no details or very few details to be shared at all so your shaky conclusion of "no commitment" due to no contract or number of years is totally invalid. But, I guess, as long as you believe it and it makes you happy, then so be it. Moving on now.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-30-2023, 03:41 PM	#9
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819	Re: What should the Saints’ plan be to upgrade at QB? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I'm still confused as to what suspicions, Smash? What difference does it make what Dennis Allen is or isn't getting paid? It's all just a drop in the bucket for the richest individual in Louisiana (Gayle Benson), isn't it? It sounds to me like Dennis Allen doesn't have an agent that chooses to share that info. In fact, I couldn't find any evidence that Allen is even represented by a sports agent. I suppose he could be representing himself which would explain why there's no contract information out there at all. there it is right there, guido admits it.....red as a beet halloween 65 likes this.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819

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