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Can't Guard Mike

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Boston Saint You can go on metaphysical “what if’s” all you want. Fact is he won the Atl game with his 4th quarter performance. The fact is, and this is a fact not a meta-anything, when an ...

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Old 03-30-2023, 04:01 PM   #261
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
You can go on metaphysical “what if’s” all you want. Fact is he won the Atl game with his 4th quarter performance.
The fact is, and this is a fact not a meta-anything, when an injury prone player goes down very early in the season and you planned around that player, gave them reps, etc, your backup will play most of the season and your backup will be less prepared to play than if the starter had never been on the roster. I don't know what teacher my kid will get in school next grade, but I would rather they get a pretty good teacher than a teacher who is amazing the first week, goes on disability for the rest of the school year on October 1, and is replaced with an unprepared substitute.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:09 PM   #262
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
The fact is, and this is a fact not a meta-anything, when an injury prone player goes down very early in the season and you planned around that player, gave them reps, etc, your backup will play most of the season and your backup will be less prepared to play than if the starter had never been on the roster. I don't know what teacher my kid will get in school next grade, but I would rather they get a pretty good teacher than a teacher who is amazing the first week, goes on disability for the rest of the school year on October 1, and is replaced with an unprepared substitute.
They also planned around Olave who got hurt. And Landry who got hurt. And Penning who got hurt and Trautman and Kamara and Winston and a lot of other guys on both sides of the ball who were part of the staggering number of injuries they had. You are choosing hindsight to ignore MT WAS healthy to start the year and was performing at his normal level. A new, different injury happened. Pat yourself on the back all you want if it makes you feel better. It was unlucky.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:34 PM   #263
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
They also planned around Olave who got hurt. And Landry who got hurt. And Penning who got hurt and Trautman and Kamara and Winston and a lot of other guys on both sides of the ball who were part of the staggering number of injuries they had. You are choosing hindsight to ignore MT WAS healthy to start the year and was performing at his normal level. A new, different injury happened. Pat yourself on the back all you want if it makes you feel better. It was unlucky.
Olave missed two games. That is normal.

Jarvis Landry was an aging player coming off an injury plagued year who the Saints got cheap because there was a broad lack of interest in his services across the league. His injury was not surprising, it was built into the price. He was always know as a possession receiver not a speed guy, with lots of receptions over the middle taking hits. And he is undersized. So he has aged more like a running back than a receiver. His departure is actually the greatest success of our offseason as we don't need players in that mold even if he is a great guy who was fun to watch at LSU before all the hits.

Penning is bad luck. Many rookies who don't hold up their first season in the NFL never do. Thats why you want lots of draft picks, not to trade up and lose them, because **** happens.

Trautman was never good so his injury does not matter. He was a Payton experiment that failed. No team has ever had to 'account' for Trautman in their defensive game plan.

Kamara is an aging running back. His missing some games is expected. It happens to all of them. Most teams draft young running backs so they can hand the keys to a Pollard type down the road, rather than rely on a backup they 'trust' who won the Heisman trophy in 2005 or whatever.

Winston was coming off an injury. I pointed out in my predictions for our 2022 record that we were going into the season with a lot of injury risk with a starting QB coming off injury, #1 WR coming off 2 years out, an aging Landry as #2 WR coming off injuries, etc. You can call the injuries staggering I guess, but staggering generally implies unforseeable, and I did basically forsee them.

Michael Thomas was not healthy going into 2022. He did not play at all in preseason. He had setbacks in camp. He managed to suit up and be effective week 1 but he was a guy coming off 2 years of injury. When a player has injuries, they often adjust their mechanics with less trust on the injured joints and the result can often be new injuries in other areas. The longer they are out the worse it is. To any sane person, Michael Thomas was a big question mark going into 2022, not a full go 100% sure thing. Thats why nobody drafted him in the 1st-2nd round in fantasy, even though he would surely be a 1st-2nd round pick if he was full go 100% back to 2019.

My overall point is that injuries are disruptive and hurt teams. Its not just missing those players, its forcing other players into roles they are less prepared for, and changing lots of other roles to compensate. If you know a player will miss most of the season, you are better off without them at all. No team can avoid all injuries. With some positions, missing a few games is almost inevitable. But teams that stack up too many high injury risk players into starting spots are setting themselves up for chaos.

Note the order of our receiver injuries: #1 receiver is highest injury risk, MT. He goes down. This shifts Landry to #1 and Olave to #2 with new roles and responsibilities in the game plan. Landry is fairly high injury risk too, and also goes down shortly after. Then Olave is thrust into the #1 role. He is young and healthy but still thrust into a different role than expected and attracting extra attention. So Olave misses a couple games during the adjustment. By avoiding a situation with Mr. Glass at the top of the depth chart, you might avoid this whole domino effect. Players are less likely to get injured when they can play the same role from camp through the end of the season, which usually never happens perfectly, but its a lot worse if it all blows up week 3.
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Last edited by BakoSaint; 03-30-2023 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:46 PM   #264
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Olave missed two games. That is normal.

Jarvis Landry was an aging player coming off an injury plagued year who the Saints got cheap because there was a broad lack of interest in his services across the league. His injury was not surprising, it was built into the price. He was always know as a possession receiver not a speed guy, with lots of receptions over the middle taking hits. And he is undersized. So he has aged more like a running back than a receiver. His departure is actually the greatest success of our offseason as we don't need players in that mold even if he is a great guy who was fun to watch at LSU before all the hits.

Penning is bad luck. Many rookies who don't hold up their first season in the NFL never do. Thats why you want lots of draft picks, not to trade up and lose them, because **** happens.

Trautman was never good so his injury does not matter. He was a Payton experiment that failed. No team has ever had to 'account' for Trautman in their defensive game plan.

Kamara is an aging running back. His missing some games is expected. It happens to all of them. Most teams draft young running backs so they can hand the keys to a Pollard type down the road, rather than rely on a backup they 'trust' who won the Heisman trophy in 2005 or whatever.

Winston was coming off an injury. I pointed out in my predictions for our 2022 record that we were going into the season with a lot of injury risk with a starting QB coming off injury, #1 WR coming off 2 years out, an aging Landry as #2 WR coming off injuries, etc. You can call the injuries staggering I guess, but staggering generally implies unforseeable, and I did basically forsee them.

Michael Thomas was not healthy going into 2022. He did not play at all in preseason. He had setbacks in camp. He managed to suit up and be effective week 1 but he was a guy coming off 2 years of injury. When a player has injuries, they often adjust their mechanics with less trust on the injured joints and the result can often be new injuries in other areas. The longer they are out the worse it is. To any sane person, Michael Thomas was a big question mark going into 2022, not a full go 100% sure thing. Thats why nobody drafted him in the 1st-2nd round in fantasy, even though he would surely be a 1st-2nd round pick if he was full go 100% back to 2019.

My overall point is that injuries are disruptive and hurt teams. Its not just missing those players, its forcing other players into roles they are less prepared for, and changing lots of other roles to compensate. If you know a player will miss most of the season, you are better off without them at all. No team can avoid all injuries. With some positions, missing a few games is almost inevitable. But teams that stack up too many high injury risk players into starting spots are setting themselves up for chaos.
That’s where I believe your viewpoint is distorted by your anti-Loomis bias in that you view every Decision as a mistake. I believe I’m more objective. But hey, I could be wrong and I’m not gonna insult/fight about it. It doesn’t matter what I say or facts I present….Your anti-Loomis mind is set.

Edit: Case in point, Thomas and Landry were healthy for week one. They had 12 receptions for 150 yards and 2 TDs between them. Losing both those guys like they did is an anomaly.
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:49 PM   #265
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Olave missed two games. That is normal.

Jarvis Landry was an aging player coming off an injury plagued year who the Saints got cheap because there was a broad lack of interest in his services across the league. His injury was not surprising, it was built into the price. He was always know as a possession receiver not a speed guy, with lots of receptions over the middle taking hits. And he is undersized. So he has aged more like a running back than a receiver. His departure is actually the greatest success of our offseason as we don't need players in that mold even if he is a great guy who was fun to watch at LSU before all the hits.

Penning is bad luck. Many rookies who don't hold up their first season in the NFL never do. Thats why you want lots of draft picks, not to trade up and lose them, because **** happens.

Trautman was never good so his injury does not matter. He was a Payton experiment that failed. No team has ever had to 'account' for Trautman in their defensive game plan.

Kamara is an aging running back. His missing some games is expected. It happens to all of them. Most teams draft young running backs so they can hand the keys to a Pollard type down the road, rather than rely on a backup they 'trust' who won the Heisman trophy in 2005 or whatever.

Winston was coming off an injury. I pointed out in my predictions for our 2022 record that we were going into the season with a lot of injury risk with a starting QB coming off injury, #1 WR coming off 2 years out, an aging Landry as #2 WR coming off injuries, etc. You can call the injuries staggering I guess, but staggering generally implies unforseeable, and I did basically forsee them.

Michael Thomas was not healthy going into 2022. He did not play at all in preseason. He had setbacks in camp. He managed to suit up and be effective week 1 but he was a guy coming off 2 years of injury. When a player has injuries, they often adjust their mechanics with less trust on the injured joints and the result can often be new injuries in other areas. The longer they are out the worse it is. To any sane person, Michael Thomas was a big question mark going into 2022, not a full go 100% sure thing. Thats why nobody drafted him in the 1st-2nd round in fantasy, even though he would surely be a 1st-2nd round pick if he was full go 100% back to 2019.

My overall point is that injuries are disruptive and hurt teams. Its not just missing those players, its forcing other players into roles they are less prepared for, and changing lots of other roles to compensate. If you know a player will miss most of the season, you are better off without them at all. No team can avoid all injuries. With some positions, missing a few games is almost inevitable. But teams that stack up too many high injury risk players into starting spots are setting themselves up for chaos.
This is a good forum discussion and you make some very good points. Very informative Bako.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:05 PM   #266
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

I won’t read BS’s post Ruby because I have him blocked. When I see someone respond to one of BS’s “everything is Loomis Fault Hate” post I have been working on perfecting my Jedi powers to skip the quoted portion of the post and only take in the responders post.

“Don’t worry be happy.”
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:27 PM   #267
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
That’s where I believe your viewpoint is distorted by your anti-Loomis bias in that you view every Decision as a mistake. I believe I’m more objective. But hey, I could be wrong and I’m not gonna insult/fight about it. It doesn’t matter what I say or facts I present….Your anti-Loomis mind is set.

Edit: Case in point, Thomas and Landry were healthy for week one. They had 12 receptions for 150 yards and 2 TDs between them. Losing both those guys like they did is an anomaly.
Yep I agree. We will see how it all turns out.

What I would argue is that it was not an anomaly, it was an almost exact repeat of the previous year. In 2021 Michael Thomas played 0 games and Jarvis Landry played 12 games. In 2022 Michael Thomas played 3 games and Jarvis Landry played 9 games. Neither player could stay healthy either season, and both seasons they combined to play 12 of 34 possible games.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:43 PM   #268
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Re: Can't Guard Mike

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat View Post
I won’t read BS’s post Ruby because I have him blocked. When I see someone respond to one of BS’s “everything is Loomis Fault Hate” post I have been working on perfecting my Jedi powers to skip the quoted portion of the post and only take in the responders post.

“Don’t worry be happy.”
Likewise, WW.

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