Who's on the bubble?

Cruize · 08-27-2023, 03:22 PM

If they wanted to dump salary, Peat, Winston and Lutz are good candidates. Winston to the Cardinals would make sense for the Cardinals. They would give the appearance of not tanking and Winston gets one more chance to start. Lutz to the Broncos would be good for both. I have as much confidence in the rookie as I do Lutz. Lutz at that altitude may set a NFL record. At this point, even if healthy, Peat isn't worth his salary. Can't believe they haven't already cut T. Smith. A surprise may be Roby. All that being said, I full expect Peat, Winston and Lutz to be Saints this season.

SmashMouth · 08-27-2023, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Cruize

If they wanted to dump salary, Peat, Winston and Lutz are good candidates. Winston to the Cardinals would make sense for the Cardinals. They would give the appearance of not tanking and Winston gets one more chance to start. Lutz to the Broncos would be good for both. I have as much confidence in the rookie as I do Lutz. Lutz at that altitude may set a NFL record. At this point, even if healthy, Peat isn't worth his salary. Can't believe they haven't already cut T. Smith. A surprise may be Roby. All that being said, I full expect Peat, Winston and Lutz to be Saints this season.

Agreed. The dead cap $ point to those you mentioned to be casualties next year or the following.

BakoSaint · 08-27-2023, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Agreed. The dead cap $ point to those you mentioned to be casualties next year or the following.

But next year we will restructure their contracts so the dead cap $ point to them being casualties 2-3 years following, and so on, forever, until either they or Loomis and Harley die. We won't ever make a transaction that costs more than it gains on the immediate years cap, even if its a big savings long term, and this gives players the option to agree to resign for prorated money with lots of void years forever, so that the new prorated money makes it cheaper to keep them the next year, and so on. Everyone's base salary is $1 million and everyone's dead cap hit is $10 million plus.

MatthewT · 08-28-2023, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I don't know about that. That would mean we have to cut another good player to make room for them on the roster. As it is, we are searching hard to find spots for a couple of bubble players.

After this weekend I am indeed backing off the temporary two kicker thought. I figured a veteran guy like Jimmy Graham may be left off the week 1 roster and brought back in week 2, I no longer see that as an option as he would likely be sought after by another team if available. I cannot think of anyone else that would be a great candidate to cut and bring back in week 2 to make room for the extra kicker to allow more time for a trade. Maybe Tre'Quan?

SmashMouth · 08-28-2023, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

But next year we will restructure their contracts so the dead cap $ point to them being casualties 2-3 years following, and so on, forever, until either they or Loomis and Harley die. We won't ever make a transaction that costs more than it gains on the immediate years cap, even if its a big savings long term, and this gives players the option to agree to resign for prorated money with lots of void years forever, so that the new prorated money makes it cheaper to keep them the next year, and so on. Everyone's base salary is $1 million and everyone's dead cap hit is $10 million plus.

True... we carried Brees' dead cap for a couple of years. It only works if the cap continues to grow. If it shrinks as it did during the covid year, it blows up. It can't go up forever, can it?

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2023, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

True... we carried Brees' dead cap for a couple of years. It only works if the cap continues to grow. If it shrinks as it did during the covid year, it blows up. It can't go up forever, can it?

It will absolutely continue to grow. With the current broadcast contracts in place it is guaranteed to continue to grow annually for at least ten years, the term of those contracts. And then there will be a new collection of bigger contracts with newer global markets and more platforms to carry the product. The only thing that could prevent it even temporarily would be something like another pandemic that happens, what, once or twice every century? And even that was just a single year hiccup that very team in the league was forced to manage.

Loomis and company decided on this accounting method a decade and a half ago. Anyone that knows anything about cost/management accounting knows that accounting approaches differ and each has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. The one thing they all have in common is that to be successful one MUST be consistent in its application. To take full advantage of the ever growing salary cap the approach being used by Loomis, and a quickly growing number of other franchises, must be used across the board on all contracts. Does it have it drawbacks at times? Sure. Every method does, but this method maximizes the value of the cap as a whole and has shown the ability to keep a team competitive from year to year.

I cannot foresee a scenario where this approach changes short of the death of Gayle Benson and given her current vitality I doubt that's going to be anytime within the next 15 to twenty years. And chances are it will still continue as it has proven to be the new method of choice across the league for obvious reasons.

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2023, 09:59 AM

This here ...

But, Cat Swlling? Need to look into that.

saintsfan1976 · 08-28-2023, 10:27 AM

We can "keep" Peat but why would we expect a different result inhis performance or availability?

Get younger and healthier.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-28-2023, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

We can "keep" Peat but why would we expect a different result inhis performance or availability?

Get younger and healthier.

Two questions:

1. Do you get better with a younger/healthier backup?
2. Do you save money with a younger/healthier backup?

Everyone gets frustrated with Peat because of availability and money. If he's on the bench then he is hopefully available. And if the money is already sunk whether or not he is cut, then what is the incentive to cut him?

The reason to keep him is that he is close to Pro bowl caliber guard on a left side of the line where we cannot guarantee that Hurst or Penning are going to stay on the field. So, if Peat isn't costing extra money to keep, why not keep him as insurance?

SFIAH

SmashMouth · 08-28-2023, 11:33 AM

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08-27-2023, 03:22 PM	#11
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457	Re: Who's on the bubble? If they wanted to dump salary, Peat, Winston and Lutz are good candidates. Winston to the Cardinals would make sense for the Cardinals. They would give the appearance of not tanking and Winston gets one more chance to start. Lutz to the Broncos would be good for both. I have as much confidence in the rookie as I do Lutz. Lutz at that altitude may set a NFL record. At this point, even if healthy, Peat isn't worth his salary. Can't believe they haven't already cut T. Smith. A surprise may be Roby. All that being said, I full expect Peat, Winston and Lutz to be Saints this season. SmashMouth likes this.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457

08-27-2023, 04:09 PM	#12
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by Cruize If they wanted to dump salary, Peat, Winston and Lutz are good candidates. Winston to the Cardinals would make sense for the Cardinals. They would give the appearance of not tanking and Winston gets one more chance to start. Lutz to the Broncos would be good for both. I have as much confidence in the rookie as I do Lutz. Lutz at that altitude may set a NFL record. At this point, even if healthy, Peat isn't worth his salary. Can't believe they haven't already cut T. Smith. A surprise may be Roby. All that being said, I full expect Peat, Winston and Lutz to be Saints this season. Agreed. The dead cap $ point to those you mentioned to be casualties next year or the following.

08-27-2023, 04:27 PM	#13
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Agreed. The dead cap $ point to those you mentioned to be casualties next year or the following. But next year we will restructure their contracts so the dead cap $ point to them being casualties 2-3 years following, and so on, forever, until either they or Loomis and Harley die. We won't ever make a transaction that costs more than it gains on the immediate years cap, even if its a big savings long term, and this gives players the option to agree to resign for prorated money with lots of void years forever, so that the new prorated money makes it cheaper to keep them the next year, and so on. Everyone's base salary is $1 million and everyone's dead cap hit is $10 million plus.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135

08-28-2023, 08:37 AM	#14
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I don't know about that. That would mean we have to cut another good player to make room for them on the roster. As it is, we are searching hard to find spots for a couple of bubble players. After this weekend I am indeed backing off the temporary two kicker thought. I figured a veteran guy like Jimmy Graham may be left off the week 1 roster and brought back in week 2, I no longer see that as an option as he would likely be sought after by another team if available. I cannot think of anyone else that would be a great candidate to cut and bring back in week 2 to make room for the extra kicker to allow more time for a trade. Maybe Tre'Quan?

08-28-2023, 08:44 AM	#15
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by BakoSaint But next year we will restructure their contracts so the dead cap $ point to them being casualties 2-3 years following, and so on, forever, until either they or Loomis and Harley die. We won't ever make a transaction that costs more than it gains on the immediate years cap, even if its a big savings long term, and this gives players the option to agree to resign for prorated money with lots of void years forever, so that the new prorated money makes it cheaper to keep them the next year, and so on. Everyone's base salary is $1 million and everyone's dead cap hit is $10 million plus. True... we carried Brees' dead cap for a couple of years. It only works if the cap continues to grow. If it shrinks as it did during the covid year, it blows up. It can't go up forever, can it?

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08-28-2023, 09:15 AM	#16
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by SmashMouth True... we carried Brees' dead cap for a couple of years. It only works if the cap continues to grow. If it shrinks as it did during the covid year, it blows up. It can't go up forever, can it? It will absolutely continue to grow. With the current broadcast contracts in place it is guaranteed to continue to grow annually for at least ten years, the term of those contracts. And then there will be a new collection of bigger contracts with newer global markets and more platforms to carry the product. The only thing that could prevent it even temporarily would be something like another pandemic that happens, what, once or twice every century? And even that was just a single year hiccup that very team in the league was forced to manage. Loomis and company decided on this accounting method a decade and a half ago. Anyone that knows anything about cost/management accounting knows that accounting approaches differ and each has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. The one thing they all have in common is that to be successful one MUST be consistent in its application. To take full advantage of the ever growing salary cap the approach being used by Loomis, and a quickly growing number of other franchises, must be used across the board on all contracts. Does it have it drawbacks at times? Sure. Every method does, but this method maximizes the value of the cap as a whole and has shown the ability to keep a team competitive from year to year. I cannot foresee a scenario where this approach changes short of the death of Gayle Benson and given her current vitality I doubt that's going to be anytime within the next 15 to twenty years. And chances are it will still continue as it has proven to be the new method of choice across the league for obvious reasons.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2023, 09:59 AM	#17
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,214	Re: Who's on the bubble? This here ... Twitter But, Cat Swlling? Need to look into that.

08-28-2023, 10:27 AM	#18
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Who's on the bubble? We can "keep" Peat but why would we expect a different result inhis performance or availability? Get younger and healthier.

08-28-2023, 11:32 AM	#19
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Who's on the bubble? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 We can "keep" Peat but why would we expect a different result inhis performance or availability? Get younger and healthier. Two questions: 1. Do you get better with a younger/healthier backup? 2. Do you save money with a younger/healthier backup? Everyone gets frustrated with Peat because of availability and money. If he's on the bench then he is hopefully available. And if the money is already sunk whether or not he is cut, then what is the incentive to cut him? The reason to keep him is that he is close to Pro bowl caliber guard on a left side of the line where we cannot guarantee that Hurst or Penning are going to stay on the field. So, if Peat isn't costing extra money to keep, why not keep him as insurance? SFIAH AsylumGuido and SmashMouth like this.
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