Trades & Cuts

BakoSaint · 08-30-2023, 06:08 PM

Nick Kroll was not impressive. They fed him the ball but he can't catch half the time. If we want someone with speed to get open who is not so good at catching we already are massively overpaying for that with Taysom Hill who we may not have room under the salary cap to cut until he is 40. Maybe Peyton will try Kroll in the wildcat and pay him $15 million a year then when that fails announce he is rededicated to TE then when he still sucks as a TE bring Julius Thomas out of retirement to make Broncos fans forget to complain about why Nick Kroll is being paid $15 million a year to be a TE who can't catch. Kroll and Hill were both UDFA.

Payton is not good at developing TE's. The only good TE in Payton's time was Jimmy Graham. Maybe Jimmy Graham is good at developing TE's. The number of garbage TE's we had over time is staggering. Other than Graham, we seemed to look for TE's who could have big drops or fumbles at critical times with the likes of Fleener, Cook, and Trout Man.

Roby was the 3rd highest paid player on our roster in base salary. It is lucky we did not restructure his contract this year and guarantee basically all of it. Since we didn't restructure, we were able to cut an aging non starter and save money on our salary cap, an advanced salary cap management technique exploited by many of our rivals. If needed we can bring in Roby or another vet journeyman for vet minimum salary.

Overall we seem to have done well with the cuts. Hopefully we didn't get too cute putting Smith on our practice squad and don't lose him like Murray last year. We should look at other teams practice squads for oline help.

I wonder if Shaheed is going on IR. We tend to be tight lipped with injury. Davis could get an audition, though Shaheed has shown a lot and missing him would hurt us, if he is healthy.

Our official depth chart shows Peat and Hurst as co-starters at LG. Is that normal? At TE or RB or something I could kind of get it, since you could use different sets or vary with downs, but at LG it seems weird. Is Hurst our 3rd down LG and Peat our short yardage LG???? Or is this just a cop out and Peat is a backup who we don't want to admit to overpaying?

vpheughan · 08-31-2023, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Nick Kroll was not impressive. They fed him the ball but he can't catch half the time. If we want someone with speed to get open who is not so good at catching we already are massively overpaying for that with Taysom Hill who we may not have room under the salary cap to cut until he is 40. Maybe Peyton will try Kroll in the wildcat and pay him $15 million a year then when that fails announce he is rededicated to TE then when he still sucks as a TE bring Julius Thomas out of retirement to make Broncos fans forget to complain about why Nick Kroll is being paid $15 million a year to be a TE who can't catch. Kroll and Hill were both UDFA.

Payton is not good at developing TE's. The only good TE in Payton's time was Jimmy Graham. Maybe Jimmy Graham is good at developing TE's. The number of garbage TE's we had over time is staggering. Other than Graham, we seemed to look for TE's who could have big drops or fumbles at critical times with the likes of Fleener, Cook, and Trout Man.

Roby was the 3rd highest paid player on our roster in base salary. It is lucky we did not restructure his contract this year and guarantee basically all of it. Since we didn't restructure, we were able to cut an aging non starter and save money on our salary cap, an advanced salary cap management technique exploited by many of our rivals. If needed we can bring in Roby or another vet journeyman for vet minimum salary.

Overall we seem to have done well with the cuts. Hopefully we didn't get too cute putting Smith on our practice squad and don't lose him like Murray last year. We should look at other teams practice squads for oline help.

I wonder if Shaheed is going on IR. We tend to be tight lipped with injury. Davis could get an audition, though Shaheed has shown a lot and missing him would hurt us, if he is healthy.

Our official depth chart shows Peat and Hurst as co-starters at LG. Is that normal? At TE or RB or something I could kind of get it, since you could use different sets or vary with downs, but at LG it seems weird. Is Hurst our 3rd down LG and Peat our short yardage LG???? Or is this just a cop out and Peat is a backup who we don't want to admit to overpaying?

Jimmy Graham Stats By Team:

Saints: Receptions 386 Yards 4,562 Yards Per Catch 12.3 TD 51
Seahawks: Receptions 170 Yards 2,048 Yards Per Catch 12.0 TD 18
Packers: Receptions 93 Yards 1,083 Yards Per Catch 11.6 TD 5
Bears: Receptions 64 Yards 623 Yards Per Catch 9.7 TD 11

True, Payton has a "Thing" for TE'S and Kickers Remember before John Harbaugh tipped him off to Lutz the kicker was Kai Forbath!
Trivia: Grupe is the second ND Kicker the Saints have had, John Carney was the other. Payton cut him his second year and traded for the Dolphins Olindo Mare and promptly had the worst season of his career going 10 - 17 58.8%

jnormand · 09-04-2023, 01:01 AM

Map is a fan. He’s just a fan of the old school. The guys that went out and played like warriors. Money was important, but respect was a different thing. It had nothing to do with respect.

He’s just pissed that it’s not like it used to be.

There’s a part of me that thinks the same way guys. The same damn way.

Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have.

Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better.

mapcow · 09-04-2023, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

Map is a fan. He’s just a fan of the old school. The guys that went out and played like warriors. Money was important, but respect was a different thing. It had nothing to do with respect.

He’s just pissed that it’s not like it used to be.

There’s a part of me that thinks the same way guys. The same damn way.

Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have.

Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better.

Awesome...

K Major · 09-05-2023, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have.

Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better.

+1.

cmike · 09-04-2023, 04:49 AM

It all boils down to money and that other thing(see Coach Prime).
I don’t find myself watching another person’s money. Pocket watching only leads to hate.
If a person is one the best 1600ish in the WORLD at their profession, I have no problem with them being compensated accordingly.

BakoSaint · 09-04-2023, 01:06 PM

On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day.

Boston Saint · 09-04-2023, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day.

Interesting point. I think along with this idea was the big kick he hit to win the pre-season game against the Chargers. That was in a stadium with fans, and You could tell by how excited the team was, and how they rallied around him that it was a big moment. That was the point I seriously thought that we could have him as our new kicker.

AsylumGuido · 09-04-2023, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day.

I agree. I'd venture to say that Grupe has a sizable chip on his shoulder given his smallish size and youthful appearance. I suspect he was questioned at every level about his ability just based upon that itself. I can see those factors developing a sharp edge.

K Major · 09-05-2023, 08:58 AM

Speaking of Payton ...

Real reason to step away from coaching Saints

08-30-2023, 06:08 PM	#1
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Re: Trades & Cuts Nick Kroll was not impressive. They fed him the ball but he can't catch half the time. If we want someone with speed to get open who is not so good at catching we already are massively overpaying for that with Taysom Hill who we may not have room under the salary cap to cut until he is 40. Maybe Peyton will try Kroll in the wildcat and pay him $15 million a year then when that fails announce he is rededicated to TE then when he still sucks as a TE bring Julius Thomas out of retirement to make Broncos fans forget to complain about why Nick Kroll is being paid $15 million a year to be a TE who can't catch. Kroll and Hill were both UDFA. Payton is not good at developing TE's. The only good TE in Payton's time was Jimmy Graham. Maybe Jimmy Graham is good at developing TE's. The number of garbage TE's we had over time is staggering. Other than Graham, we seemed to look for TE's who could have big drops or fumbles at critical times with the likes of Fleener, Cook, and Trout Man. Roby was the 3rd highest paid player on our roster in base salary. It is lucky we did not restructure his contract this year and guarantee basically all of it. Since we didn't restructure, we were able to cut an aging non starter and save money on our salary cap, an advanced salary cap management technique exploited by many of our rivals. If needed we can bring in Roby or another vet journeyman for vet minimum salary. Overall we seem to have done well with the cuts. Hopefully we didn't get too cute putting Smith on our practice squad and don't lose him like Murray last year. We should look at other teams practice squads for oline help. I wonder if Shaheed is going on IR. We tend to be tight lipped with injury. Davis could get an audition, though Shaheed has shown a lot and missing him would hurt us, if he is healthy. Our official depth chart shows Peat and Hurst as co-starters at LG. Is that normal? At TE or RB or something I could kind of get it, since you could use different sets or vary with downs, but at LG it seems weird. Is Hurst our 3rd down LG and Peat our short yardage LG???? Or is this just a cop out and Peat is a backup who we don't want to admit to overpaying? SmashMouth and K Major like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Last edited by BakoSaint; 08-30-2023 at 06:21 PM..

08-31-2023, 12:17 PM	#2
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,550	Re: Trades & Cuts Originally Posted by BakoSaint Nick Kroll was not impressive. They fed him the ball but he can't catch half the time. If we want someone with speed to get open who is not so good at catching we already are massively overpaying for that with Taysom Hill who we may not have room under the salary cap to cut until he is 40. Maybe Peyton will try Kroll in the wildcat and pay him $15 million a year then when that fails announce he is rededicated to TE then when he still sucks as a TE bring Julius Thomas out of retirement to make Broncos fans forget to complain about why Nick Kroll is being paid $15 million a year to be a TE who can't catch. Kroll and Hill were both UDFA. Payton is not good at developing TE's. The only good TE in Payton's time was Jimmy Graham. Maybe Jimmy Graham is good at developing TE's. The number of garbage TE's we had over time is staggering. Other than Graham, we seemed to look for TE's who could have big drops or fumbles at critical times with the likes of Fleener, Cook, and Trout Man. Roby was the 3rd highest paid player on our roster in base salary. It is lucky we did not restructure his contract this year and guarantee basically all of it. Since we didn't restructure, we were able to cut an aging non starter and save money on our salary cap, an advanced salary cap management technique exploited by many of our rivals. If needed we can bring in Roby or another vet journeyman for vet minimum salary. Overall we seem to have done well with the cuts. Hopefully we didn't get too cute putting Smith on our practice squad and don't lose him like Murray last year. We should look at other teams practice squads for oline help. I wonder if Shaheed is going on IR. We tend to be tight lipped with injury. Davis could get an audition, though Shaheed has shown a lot and missing him would hurt us, if he is healthy. Our official depth chart shows Peat and Hurst as co-starters at LG. Is that normal? At TE or RB or something I could kind of get it, since you could use different sets or vary with downs, but at LG it seems weird. Is Hurst our 3rd down LG and Peat our short yardage LG???? Or is this just a cop out and Peat is a backup who we don't want to admit to overpaying? Jimmy Graham Stats By Team: Saints: Receptions 386 Yards 4,562 Yards Per Catch 12.3 TD 51 Seahawks: Receptions 170 Yards 2,048 Yards Per Catch 12.0 TD 18 Packers: Receptions 93 Yards 1,083 Yards Per Catch 11.6 TD 5 Bears: Receptions 64 Yards 623 Yards Per Catch 9.7 TD 11 True, Payton has a "Thing" for TE'S and Kickers Remember before John Harbaugh tipped him off to Lutz the kicker was Kai Forbath! Trivia: Grupe is the second ND Kicker the Saints have had, John Carney was the other. Payton cut him his second year and traded for the Dolphins Olindo Mare and promptly had the worst season of his career going 10 - 17 58.8%
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,550	"Your worst enemy, he reflected, was your own nervous system. At any moment the tension inside you was liable to translate itself into some visible symptom." Winston Smith

09-04-2023, 01:01 AM	#3
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,769	Re: Trades & Cuts Map is a fan. He’s just a fan of the old school. The guys that went out and played like warriors. Money was important, but respect was a different thing. It had nothing to do with respect. He’s just pissed that it’s not like it used to be. There’s a part of me that thinks the same way guys. The same damn way. Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have. Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better. Rugby Saint II, mapcow and K Major like this.

09-04-2023, 03:23 AM	#4
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819	Re: Trades & Cuts Originally Posted by jnormand Map is a fan. He’s just a fan of the old school. The guys that went out and played like warriors. Money was important, but respect was a different thing. It had nothing to do with respect. He’s just pissed that it’s not like it used to be. There’s a part of me that thinks the same way guys. The same damn way. Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have. Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better. Awesome...
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,819

09-05-2023, 09:14 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,838 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Trades & Cuts Originally Posted by jnormand Sports has lost its way. Many Americans have. Map, you just keep it up. That’s why we live here. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having high expectations for the Saints. The name alone should say something. Something stronger. And better. +1. SmashMouth likes this.

09-04-2023, 04:49 AM	#6
cmike 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Gulfport Posts: 1,447	Re: Trades & Cuts It all boils down to money and that other thing(see Coach Prime). I don’t find myself watching another person’s money. Pocket watching only leads to hate. If a person is one the best 1600ish in the WORLD at their profession, I have no problem with them being compensated accordingly. AsylumGuido and rezburna like this.

09-04-2023, 01:06 PM	#7
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400	Re: Trades & Cuts On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day. jnormand, AsylumGuido and Boston Saint like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,400

09-04-2023, 01:39 PM	#8
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Trades & Cuts Originally Posted by BakoSaint On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day. Interesting point. I think along with this idea was the big kick he hit to win the pre-season game against the Chargers. That was in a stadium with fans, and You could tell by how excited the team was, and how they rallied around him that it was a big moment. That was the point I seriously thought that we could have him as our new kicker. jnormand likes this.

09-04-2023, 02:27 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,666	Re: Trades & Cuts Originally Posted by BakoSaint On the kicker thing I would not worry too much about whether Blake Grupe can handle the pressure in the regular season. It might be more pressure from our fan perspective, but from his perspective even one missed kick in preseason could easily have led him to not making the team and never getting a chance in the NFL. A rookie kicker who has a bad game in a preseason audition has very little chance to ever recover. Now that he is the day 1 starter, I think he actually has more margin for error than he did in the preseason. If anything, I might worry more if he can handle less pressure and still stay focused when its not do or die every day. I agree. I'd venture to say that Grupe has a sizable chip on his shoulder given his smallish size and youthful appearance. I suspect he was questioned at every level about his ability just based upon that itself. I can see those factors developing a sharp edge.

09-05-2023, 08:58 AM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,838 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Trades & Cuts Speaking of Payton ... Real reason to step away from coaching Saints jnormand and SmashMouth like this.