Rsanders24

I know Armstead was injury prone but I miss him terribly.

A lot of teams are really struggling with the play of their O-Line. Good O-Linemen are at a premium now. We have too much draft capital in our OL for them to perform like this 3 weeks into the season.

Rugby Saint II

Doesn't a deadline mean that it's the last day? Can't we make a trade now?

I'm pointing a finger at Doug Marrone. We have athletes that can't block. Whose fault is that? I think it's on coaching.

That's funny. I feel informed.

K Major

+1.

Danno

Doug Marrone was our O-line coach when we had one of the best in the entire NFL (I think it was the Bushrod era, maybe Carl Nicks)

I think he's one of the better O-Line coaches in the league, or at least he used to be.

Maybe our guys just suck right now. I don't notice many missed assignments as much as I notice our guys getting freaking steamrolled.

Rugby Saint II

It's his blocking schemes that aren't working. Zone concept? Help me out here Rez.

Also, It's not Douggie's fault that PC calls seven step drop backs. We just don't have time for the plays to develop before the pressure is on. Why aren't we calling more sweeps, screens, or short quick passes? Da might get a new OC next year. If we're lucky maybe the Saints will put him in the press box and have someone else call the shots. Something's gotta' give....and I don't mean Carr's shoulder.

K Major

I'm just a couch coach but former Bengal La'el Collins passed his physical today with Dr. Neal ElAttrache. I'd make a call.

FYI, this is the doctor who did the operation (Achilles) on Aaron Rodgers.

Ruiz is concussed, Hurst has played poorly, Landon Young isn't very good and Nick S isn't ready as a starter.

Again, what the hell do I know?

AsylumGuido

Not if there is no team willing to trade one of their most valuable players, Rugs. That's the point I'm trying to make. NOBODY is going to trade a starter quality offensive lineman until they know their season is totally over. That usually coincides with the trade deadline.

BakoSaint

Its certainly worthwhile to give Collins a call. He has been above average at times, hurt and below average at others. He can play multiple positions. I think it is worth giving him a call. But don't give him a 4 year $50 million extension if he strings together a few good games, let him audition here and let someone else take that gamble if it works out and we will take the comp pick. There is no guarantee Collins is better than Hurst, Peat, Ruiz, or Penning but he creates competition and probably he is better than some of them.

Also, bring in someone to coach him who has done good work this decade.

AsylumGuido

But the thing is that each of our current starting offensive linemen beyond Penning have been very good, if not outstanding, at times over the past few years. Peat's issue has never been quality of play, it's mainly been ability to remain on the field. Ramczyk has been outstanding for most of his short career. McCoy has been better than just solid. Ruiz, after a slow start, was arguably our best offensive lineman last season.

Did they all just suddenly suck? I doubt that. As good as Marrone's reputation is (I was a huge proponent) could that be the issue?

“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

BakoSaint

Ruiz got paid so that is a difference. Some players slack off when they get paid, others step it up. It's certainly possible Ruiz slacked off. But which is which could depend on their coaches motivational skills in additional to their coaches skills as technicians with x's and o's, which could reflect on any or all of their coaches up the chain. Marrone is the easiest coach to switch out now.

Peat has been mediocre for a long time. Not the worst but not the best. But his constant injuries did not just tarnish his legend as a C grade oline, they also often kicked off musical chairs for other oline that affected all their development. They may also have effected his colleagues morale, seeing Peat take a bunch of days off, turn in lackluster pay, show up in mediocre shape, and take home the same or often more cash than the rest, with seemingly endless job security. Who wants to work late every day, maintain a strict diet, put in time in the weight room and tape room, etc if your most senior tenured colleagues get away with extending a late lunch through COB? Peats bad example and the lack of consequences could set the tone for the entire oline to decline once they get their cash. As Peat ages, the injuries and musical chairs are likely to kick into higher gear, and he play is likely to decline from mediocre to worse. But if he is still mediocre, perhaps instead of being the starter who kicks off musical chairs, he is better utilized as the backup who fills in at any position and prevents musical chairs, or fills in directly for the worst most struggling player and that player can shift to being the injury backup who prevents musical chairs. I dont think there is any scenario where a new coach makes Peat great unless he gets brainwashed into joining crossfit and going on a paleo diet or some bs like that, but we may have to use him somewhere.

McCoy and Ramcyzk have been great in the past. But oline is not a position where every player has a long career. Its hard to carry that weight and fight those battles on mere mortal knees, just likes its hard for a baseball pitcher to throw 100 fastballs on a mortal elbow. Some guys are great for a few years and break down, other guys are Nolan Ryan or Andrew Whitworth and last forever. La'el Collins was a legend early on, lately not so much. These two are not our worst problems now, but they are a bit off, and that could be father time, it could be having to pick up the slack for the bottom feeders around them, it could be Doug Marrone, or it could be Allen and Carmichael's shortcomings as leaders and motivators. Marrone is the easiest part to change right now. Carmichael wouldn't be the hardest.

Technically Hurst is a starting oline. I don't know that he has ever been great as a full season starter. But if we believe PFF he is not our weakest link, and he played better at LT last year than Penning is playing this year.

It's possible that in the past Payton served as the motivator for the offense and enlisted a group of technicians lacking leadership and motivational skills as his assistants, but was not a great motivator on the defense and deferred on that side of the ball to a bunch of lackluster coaches until he found Allen who could do the same for the defense. But perhaps Allen has the same problem and can be a leader and motivator for the defense but not for the offense, which is staffed with a bunch of technicians who lack leadership vision and motivational skill. In this case, bringing on Gruden could potentially improve the offense instantly, if Marrone and Carmichael's shortcomings are in the area of personality, leadership, and motivational skill not x's and o's.

It could also be that Marrone was a good oline coach but is stuck in his ways and the league has evolved. Could be the same for Gruden. But if many of these players were a lot better very recently, a better motivator is an obvious thing to try.