Doug Marrone was our O-line coach when we had one of the best in the entire NFL (I think it was the Bushrod era, maybe Carl Nicks)

I think he's one of the better O-Line coaches in the league, or at least he used to be.

Maybe our guys just suck right now. I don't notice many missed assignments as much as I notice our guys getting freaking steamrolled.

But the thing is that each of our current starting offensive linemen beyond Penning have been very good, if not outstanding, at times over the past few years. Peat's issue has never been quality of play, it's mainly been ability to remain on the field. Ramczyk has been outstanding for most of his short career. McCoy has been better than just solid. Ruiz, after a slow start, was arguably our best offensive lineman last season.

Did they all just suddenly suck? I doubt that. As good as Marrone's reputation is (I was a huge proponent) could that be the issue?

Ruiz got paid so that is a difference. Some players slack off when they get paid, others step it up. It's certainly possible Ruiz slacked off. But which is which could depend on their coaches motivational skills in additional to their coaches talent, which could reflect on any or all of their coaches up the chain. Marrone is the easiest coach to switch out now.

Peat has been mediocre for a long time. Not the worst but not the best. But his constant injuries did not just tarnish his legend as a C grade oline, they also often kicked off musical chairs for other oline that affected all their development. As Peat ages, the injuries and musical chairs are likely to kick into higher gear, and he play is likely to decline from mediocre to worse. But if he is still mediocre, perhaps instead of being the starter who kicks off musical chairs, he is better utilized as the backup who fills in at any position and prevents musical chairs, or fills in directly for the worst most struggling player and that player can shift to being the injury backup who prevents musical chairs. I dont think there is any scenario where a new coach makes Peat great unless he gets brainwashed into joining crossfit and going on a paleo diet or some bs like that, but we may have to use him somewhere.

McCoy and Ramcyzk have been great in the past. But oline is not a position where every player has a long career. Its hard to carry that weight and fight those battles on mere mortal knees, just likes its hard for a baseball pitcher to throw 100 fastballs on a mortal elbow. Some guys are great for a few years and break down. La'el Collins was a legend early on, lately not so much. They are not our worst problems now, but they are a bit off, and that could be father time, it could be having to pick up the slack for the bottom feeders around them, it could be Doug Marrone, or it could be Allen and Carmichael's shortcomings as leaders and motivators. Marrone is the easiest part to change right now. Carmichael wouldn't be the hardest.

Technically Hurst is a starting oline. I don't know that he has ever been great as a full season starter. But if we believe PFF he is not our weakest link, and he played better at LT last year than Penning is playing this year.

It's possible that in the past Payton served as the motivator for the offense and enlisted a group of technicians lacking leadership and motivational skills as his assistants, but was not a great motivator on the defense and deferred on that side of the ball to a bunch of lackluster coaches until he found Allen who could do the same for the defense. But perhaps Allen has the same problem and can be a leader and motivator for the defense but not for the offense, which is staffed with a bunch of technicians who lack leadership vision and motivational skill. In this case, bringing on Gruden could potentially improve the offense instantly, if Marrone and Carmichael's shortcomings are in the area of personality, leadership, and motivational skill not x's and o's.

https://twitter.com/john_siglerr/sta...48102951882915

For an analogy with Ramcyzk and McCoy, Kyle Turley had 6 seasons to begin his career where he started 15-16 games and made an all pro team. After that, he played 14 games total the next 4 years. Carl Nicks had 4 healthy seasons and then horrible injuries. LeCharles Bentley had 4 healthy seasons and then horrible injuries. Jermon Bushrod was a regular starter for 6 seasons, made two pro bowls, got benched for half a year, converted to guard and managed to start a full season, then broke down and never played another full season. Other guys like Roaf, Armstead, and Evans lasted longer, but half of these pro bowl oline careers are short ones.

Ramcyzk is in year 7 as a full time starter. McCoy is in year 5. I don't care so much about age, I think at that position its more about how each unique player handles the wear and tear. We have to be financially prepared that its reasonably likely that one of them is starting to break down, though it could also be neither or both. It's not financially responsible to put ourselves in a position where there is no backup plan if they both don't last forever like a Roaf or Evans.

I think a player who has had strong seasons at both LG and RT could probably play RG or LT too. He has played both guard and tackle and he has played both left and right side, and he would have to learn a new scheme anyway, so adjusting the positional aspect might not be the end of the world when adjusting the scheme at the same time. At some point one or more of our starters will miss a string of games and we have to decide if we want Collins there or we want Young, Peat, etc. Collins does have the upside to become a solid starter again for a year or two if healthy.

But, we would have to look at the financial consequences of signing Collins too. It would depend a lot on how much money he would want. We are only $2.75 million under the cap, though perhaps there is some offsetting of pushing some lowest of 52 contract off the list if he would sign so perhaps we could give him $3.5 million or something. But that might greatly diminish our flexibility to do anything else.

We could give him a multi-year contract to spread the cost but that is very risky.

We could add a bunch of void years but that gets us in trouble for dead cap in 2024 if its a one year deal and he moves on and all that cash hits the cap.

We could try to restructure other contracts to make room, but after restructuring and extending Granderson and Ruiz, trading Lutz, and cutting Roby, we only have one contract left that has not been restructured for 2023 and includes a base salary of over about $1.5 million. That is James Hurst with a base salary of $3.5 million. James Hurst might be hesitant to restructure his contract to facilitate the signing of his possible direct replacement, given our investments in Penning and Ruiz. Hurst might also want an extension to restructure. An in season restructure is not like offseason, because in the offseason converting salary to a signing bonus means the player getting the money almost a year early, while Hurst is getting his cash weekly now that the season has started and its all guaranteed, and certain methods of pushing the money back would require him taking it later for more of it to apply against future caps, such as converting it to a guaranteed 2024 roster bonus, so logically he might want more money in order to take the cash later or agree to a restructure that doesn't give him any new guarantees or much cash acceleration. And if Hurst agrees and we add void years or a 2024 guaranteed roster bonus and cut him in the offseason, that hits 2024 dead cap.

Considering the financial consequences, if Collins would not come incredibly cheap, it might make sense to delay any potential move until we actually have a significant injury to a starter and then see who is available then. While many teams are close to the cap just like we are, few are also in the position of having essentially every contract already restructured and almost no ability to create new 2023 cap space.

Please make a thread for this crap. Pretty please. Every frickin' post from you is this same drivel.