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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by BakoSaint Ruiz got paid so that is a difference. Some players slack off when they get paid, others step it up. It's certainly possible Ruiz slacked off. But which is which could depend on their coaches motivational ...
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09-25-2023, 07:22 PM | #21 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
Get over the what they get paid ****, Bako. Christ.
I'll guarantee you that most all of us, if not absolutely all of us, tune out to anything you post with that as the leading emphasis. |
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09-25-2023, 07:22 PM | #22 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
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09-25-2023, 07:56 PM | #23 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
For an analogy with Ramcyzk and McCoy, Kyle Turley had 6 seasons to begin his career where he started 15-16 games and made an all pro team. After that, he played 14 games total the next 4 years. Carl Nicks had 4 healthy seasons and then horrible injuries. LeCharles Bentley had 4 healthy seasons and then horrible injuries. Jermon Bushrod was a regular starter for 6 seasons, made two pro bowls, got benched for half a year, converted to guard and managed to start a full season, then broke down and never played another full season. Other guys like Roaf, Armstead, and Evans lasted longer, but half of these pro bowl oline careers are short ones.
Ramcyzk is in year 7 as a full time starter. McCoy is in year 5. I don't care so much about age, I think at that position its more about how each unique player handles the wear and tear. We have to be financially prepared that its reasonably likely that one of them is starting to break down, though it could also be neither or both. It's not financially responsible to put ourselves in a position where there is no backup plan if they both don't last forever like a Roaf or Evans. |
09-25-2023, 08:18 PM | #24 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
I think a player who has had strong seasons at both LG and RT could probably play RG or LT too. He has played both guard and tackle and he has played both left and right side, and he would have to learn a new scheme anyway, so adjusting the positional aspect might not be the end of the world when adjusting the scheme at the same time. At some point one or more of our starters will miss a string of games and we have to decide if we want Collins there or we want Young, Peat, etc. Collins does have the upside to become a solid starter again for a year or two if healthy.
But, we would have to look at the financial consequences of signing Collins too. It would depend a lot on how much money he would want. We are only $2.75 million under the cap, though perhaps there is some offsetting of pushing some lowest of 52 contract off the list if he would sign so perhaps we could give him $3.5 million or something. But that might greatly diminish our flexibility to do anything else. We could give him a multi-year contract to spread the cost but that is very risky. We could add a bunch of void years but that gets us in trouble for dead cap in 2024 if its a one year deal and he moves on and all that cash hits the cap. We could try to restructure other contracts to make room, but after restructuring and extending Granderson and Ruiz, trading Lutz, and cutting Roby, we only have one contract left that has not been restructured for 2023 and includes a base salary of over about $1.5 million. That is James Hurst with a base salary of $3.5 million. James Hurst might be hesitant to restructure his contract to facilitate the signing of his possible direct replacement, given our investments in Penning and Ruiz. Hurst might also want an extension to restructure. An in season restructure is not like offseason, because in the offseason converting salary to a signing bonus means the player getting the money almost a year early, while Hurst is getting his cash weekly now that the season has started and its all guaranteed, and certain methods of pushing the money back would require him taking it later for more of it to apply against future caps, such as converting it to a guaranteed 2024 roster bonus, so logically he might want more money in order to take the cash later or agree to a restructure that doesn't give him any new guarantees or much cash acceleration. And if Hurst agrees and we add void years or a 2024 guaranteed roster bonus and cut him in the offseason, that hits 2024 dead cap. Considering the financial consequences, if Collins would not come incredibly cheap, it might make sense to delay any potential move until we actually have a significant injury to a starter and then see who is available then. While many teams are close to the cap just like we are, few are also in the position of having essentially every contract already restructured and almost no ability to create new 2023 cap space. |
09-25-2023, 08:38 PM | #25 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
Please make a thread for this crap. Pretty please. Every frickin' post from you is this same drivel.
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09-25-2023, 09:07 PM | #26 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido
It's a business. Ignoring the finances is just as bad as ignoring the score, the record, or the plays. I grew up in the salary cap era. Overthecap.com is like another box score. Watching the books and having opinions about the books is as much a part of following the game as watching the plays and having opinions about the plays. You can't just look at the final score and say you dont need to watch the game because you trust the experts. Likewise I can't just trust the experts on the cap. The experts can screw up. If math is intimidating for you I am sorry. But a major dimension of the game, the constraints of the salary cap that are just as important as what 11 men you put on the field, cannot be confined to one thread. You can't add oline help without paying for it. You can't give everyone extensions without consequences.
When there is a long discussion about adding players and nobody has looked at how far we are under the cap, who we could restructure, and whether we can afford to add to future years caps, its all just a fantasy. There is no free lunch. We don't have a blank check. This ain't 1993. |
09-25-2023, 09:14 PM | #27 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
It’s business. Bad business. And bad business makes for bad football. The Players deserve better. The Fans deserve better. |
09-25-2023, 09:28 PM | #28 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
In the words of Underhill, “they better figure it out. Do something … & fast”.
You simply can’t keep playing this poorly up front. |
09-26-2023, 09:06 AM | #29 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Garrett Boles seems to be unhappy in Denver. They’re tanking for Caleb Williams anyway. Go grab him.
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09-26-2023, 11:29 AM | #30 |
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Re: Is there a legit immediate impact offensive lineman out there worth trading for?
Originally Posted by rezburna
Bolles 2023 base salary is $14 million. The Saints are $2.7 million under the cap. The only player the Saints have remaining who could be restructured is James Hurst, generating perhaps $1.5 million to get us to $4.2 million under the cap. This is based on my understanding that roster bonuses are paid by the start of the year and can't be restructured in season, if that is incorrect perhaps we could get to $7 million under the cap restructuring Hurst and Jordan who have about $2 million roster bonuses.
So, the Saints cannot possibly absorb Bolles current salary. Denver could convert Bolles remaining salary to a signing bonus before trading him, reducing his salary to a league minimum and taking the cap hit themselves, but they would likely ask for significantly higher draft compensation in return for subsidizing our cap by $10 million at the expense of theirs, when they are right at the cap limit, and could gain about $10 million cap room by trading him to a team with cap space. This is especially considering the cap hit they would absorb moving on from Russell Wilson, they need cap relief. I think we could immediately restructure Bolles to get under the cap. But if we spread that $14 million over 4 years by adding 3 void years to his deal, we are still looking at a $4.25 million cap hit for 2023 requiring a restructure to Hurst (his being willing to help us sign his replacement maybe) and totally maxing out our cap so we are essentially barred from acquiring any other veteran players making above minimum salaries for the rest of the league year. Bolles would likely demand the first year void trigger with a timing that prevented him from being tagged, so we might pay a lot for a one year rental and take a dead cap hit in 2024. If Bolles wants a big extension this year, we would have to get very creative to do it, in ways he may not like. Essentially whatever signing bonus the the deal includes divided by the number of years on the contract could not exceed $3 million prorated per year for us to make it work with our cap along with a $1 million minimum salary. We could give him a large 2024 guaranteed roster bonus due in March, but he can't cash that check until March, and he might prefer a team who could write him a check today for over $12-$15 million signing bonus (4-5 year deal). I don't know Bolles exact market value, but essentially we could only give him a Granderson / Ruiz level deal if he wants the signing bonus now, and thats only if we restructure Hurst and completely max our cap. |