Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans

10-16-2023, 10:07 AM

When I look for reasons on why we are losing in the trenches and in games, I find a stat line like this:

"The Saints have been whistled for a league-high 55 penalties (12 declined) for a league-high 406 yards. They lead the NFL in offensive holding (18) & defensive pass interference (9) penalties. Their opponents 16 first downs by penalty is tied for second highest in the leage".

Allen always want to get on that podium and talk about players need to do this or that but he needs to take a hard look in the mirror, coaching assistants as well.

IIRC the Saints were top 5 in penalties @ the conclusion of pre season.

This 2023 club has ZERO discipline. Those penalties are all on the coaches.

It's a short week coming off a L & we're facing a real playoff contending team (Jacksonville) on Thursday that can put up points.

Sinner · 10-16-2023, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

When I look for reasons on why we are losing in the trenches and in games, I find a stat line like this:

"The Saints have been whistled for a league-high 55 penalties (12 declined) for a league-high 406 yards. They lead the NFL in offensive holding (18) & defensive pass interference (9) penalties. Their opponents 16 first downs by penalty is tied for second highest in the leage".

Allen always want to get on that podium and talk about players need to do this or that but he needs to take a hard look in the mirror, coaching assistants as well.

IIRC the Saints were top 5 in penalties @ the conclusion of pre season.

This 2023 club has ZERO discipline. Those penalties are all on the coaches.

It's a short week coming off a L & we're facing a real playoff contending team (Jacksonville) on Thursday that can put up points.

WE NEED A NEW HEAD COACH. A real one.

K Major · 10-16-2023, 10:11 AM

Forgot to quote the source on that penalty stat in post #41 - Underhill

MatthewT · 10-16-2023, 11:28 AM

The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it.

And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway.

SmashMouth · 10-16-2023, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it.

And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway.

That says a lot, doesn't it?

$100 million guaranteed contract ... I guess we couldn't do a prove it deal !?!

Brace yourselves, it's going to be a bumpy road.

K Major · 10-16-2023, 12:28 PM

I won’t try to defend DCarr here but it’s hard to
complete passes when you’re being pressured over 50% of your
drop back passes.

The entire oline is not holding up.

But yeah Carr is still holding on to the ball too long & guys are still
running closely into each other on routes.

Miscommunication should have been cleaned up weeks ago.

WW_Who_Dat · 10-16-2023, 12:56 PM

Applying the principle of Occums Razor to the Saints current offensive performance, the simplest explanation is the one constant over the last 2 seasons. Players have changed but the 2 constant has been the person responsible for the offensive game planning and play calling and the head coach who doubled down on that person after last season.

Allen staked his future and the team future on Carmichael leading the offense. Just a fan’s opinion but from what I see PC could use all the motion and play action in his play book, but the lack of a cohesive offensive scheme that attacks the defense with a coordinated plan of attack putting players in position to win matchups and setup defenses later in the game. Hit one shot play the run 5 straight times .. that’s not the ticket.

Players not running the right route based on coverage 6 weeks into the season … coaching. If the player has been coached up during install and is still making these mistakes they should have been bench by now.

What we hear coming from the players post game comments are sanitized for public consumption. My guess behind closed doors the veterans are trying to hold the younger players and team together but they all know the root cause.

dizzle88 · 10-16-2023, 01:02 PM

I knew we'd lose the second Baun fumbled that pick right back to them. It's typical Saints BS.

Offense shows NE game was a fluke. Grupe missing the shortest kick, any team has had this season.

Olave jogging through routes until the 2nd half, not looking for the ball on a deep route.

This Saints team stinks. An absolute bore-fest to watch when it's just Death by ineptitude.

Sinner · 10-16-2023, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it.

And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway.

All of what you suggest, is assuming that we have solid ownership, management and coaching. We don’t.

MatthewT · 10-16-2023, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I knew we'd lose the second Baun fumbled that pick right back to them. It's typical Saints BS.

Offense shows NE game was a fluke. Grupe missing the shortest kick, any team has had this season.

Olave jogging through routes until the 2nd half, not looking for the ball on a deep route.

This Saints team stinks. An absolute bore-fest to watch when it's just Death by ineptitude.

I know this is going to be a very unpopular statement, but it may be time to seriously consider putting Olave on the trading block. I know this is a very talented number 1 type of receiver, but we are now seeing a pattern of unacceptable behavior over the past few weeks. These type of issues normally do not improve over time.

10-16-2023, 10:09 AM	#42
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,952	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans Originally Posted by K Major When I look for reasons on why we are losing in the trenches and in games, I find a stat line like this: "The Saints have been whistled for a league-high 55 penalties (12 declined) for a league-high 406 yards. They lead the NFL in offensive holding (18) & defensive pass interference (9) penalties. Their opponents 16 first downs by penalty is tied for second highest in the leage". Allen always want to get on that podium and talk about players need to do this or that but he needs to take a hard look in the mirror, coaching assistants as well. IIRC the Saints were top 5 in penalties @ the conclusion of pre season. This 2023 club has ZERO discipline. Those penalties are all on the coaches. It's a short week coming off a L & we're facing a real playoff contending team (Jacksonville) on Thursday that can put up points. WE NEED A NEW HEAD COACH. A real one. K Major likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,952

10-16-2023, 10:11 AM	#43
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans Forgot to quote the source on that penalty stat in post #41 - Underhill SmashMouth likes this.

10-16-2023, 11:28 AM	#44
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it. And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway. SmashMouth, mapcow and K Major like this.

10-16-2023, 11:53 AM	#45
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,200 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans Originally Posted by MatthewT The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it. And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway. That says a lot, doesn't it? $100 million guaranteed contract ... I guess we couldn't do a prove it deal !?! Brace yourselves, it's going to be a bumpy road. MatthewT and Sinner like this.
	Last edited by SmashMouth; 10-16-2023 at 12:04 PM..

10-16-2023, 12:28 PM	#46
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans I won’t try to defend DCarr here but it’s hard to complete passes when you’re being pressured over 50% of your drop back passes. The entire oline is not holding up. But yeah Carr is still holding on to the ball too long & guys are still running closely into each other on routes. Miscommunication should have been cleaned up weeks ago. Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-16-2023, 10:07 AM	#41
Threaded by K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3 Rating: (0 votes - average) When I look for reasons on why we are losing in the trenches and in games, I find a stat line like this: "The Saints have been whistled for a league-high 55 penalties (12 declined) for a league-high 406 yards. They lead the NFL in offensive holding (18) & defensive pass interference (9) penalties. Their opponents 16 first downs by penalty is tied for second highest in the leage". Allen always want to get on that podium and talk about players need to do this or that but he needs to take a hard look in the mirror, coaching assistants as well. IIRC the Saints were top 5 in penalties @ the conclusion of pre season. This 2023 club has ZERO discipline. Those penalties are all on the coaches. It's a short week coming off a L & we're facing a real playoff contending team (Jacksonville) on Thursday that can put up points. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.
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10-16-2023, 12:56 PM	#47
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,270 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans Applying the principle of Occums Razor to the Saints current offensive performance, the simplest explanation is the one constant over the last 2 seasons. Players have changed but the 2 constant has been the person responsible for the offensive game planning and play calling and the head coach who doubled down on that person after last season. Allen staked his future and the team future on Carmichael leading the offense. Just a fan’s opinion but from what I see PC could use all the motion and play action in his play book, but the lack of a cohesive offensive scheme that attacks the defense with a coordinated plan of attack putting players in position to win matchups and setup defenses later in the game. Hit one shot play the run 5 straight times .. that’s not the ticket. Players not running the right route based on coverage 6 weeks into the season … coaching. If the player has been coached up during install and is still making these mistakes they should have been bench by now. What we hear coming from the players post game comments are sanitized for public consumption. My guess behind closed doors the veterans are trying to hold the younger players and team together but they all know the root cause.

10-16-2023, 01:02 PM	#48
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,358	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans I knew we'd lose the second Baun fumbled that pick right back to them. It's typical Saints BS. Offense shows NE game was a fluke. Grupe missing the shortest kick, any team has had this season. Olave jogging through routes until the 2nd half, not looking for the ball on a deep route. This Saints team stinks. An absolute bore-fest to watch when it's just Death by ineptitude. MatthewT, Rugby Saint II and Sinner like this.

10-16-2023, 01:25 PM	#49
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,952	Re: Observations from the Saints loss to the Texans Originally Posted by MatthewT The way I see this right now is Derek Carr is a terrible QB and needs to be gone. Bench him now and release him after the season, bite the bullet on the salary cap issues. His red zone woes and overall questionable decision making have followed him from the Raiders, he will have good games here and there, but that's about it. If there is any way to trade Carr now I say do it. And if anyone thinks Winston is a better choice, think again, he is worse. Trade him too if the opportunity presents itself, it is already assumed he won't be back with the team next year anyway. All of what you suggest, is assuming that we have solid ownership, management and coaching. We don’t.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,952