Question for the Forum: Who was the worst Saints player during your lifetime?

[AsylumGuido]

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Trevor Penning stole $14.1 million, but its also about how bad they all are, and I believe 1-on-1 Sullivan destroys Penning. Penning would never have started in the SEC.

Penning's career is still in front of him. He may very well turn out to be a bust, who knows. But you cannot legitimately judge a player's career until it is over. I remember a person or two around here that labeled Cesar Ruiz as a total bust at the same point in his career and now he's developed into one of our better linemen.

Just sayin'.

[BakoSaint]

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Penning's career is still in front of him. He may very well turn out to be a bust, who knows. But you cannot legitimately judge a player's career until it is over. I remember a person or two around here that labeled Cesar Ruiz as a total bust at the same point in his career and now he's developed into one of our better linemen.

Just sayin'.

In the same sense that Tim Boyle's career is not over, Trevor Penning's career is not over. You never know. But at the same time you have to be realistic if you want to plan to compete and plan to have a safe offensive line for your skill position players.

What we have seen from Trevor Penning is very bad. Cesar Ruiz was a below average starter, but still a starter, his first two years. Jonathan Sullivan was the same his first year, but gained a lot of weight and became un-startable in Year 2. Both Ruiz and Sullivan were good starters for major programs against solid competition in college. Trevor Penning was not merely below average as a starter. When Penning started, the entire offense had to be changed to keep the QB alive, making all the primary assignments of every RB and TE change to helping Trevor Penning, insteaf of getting open, drawing coverage, deceiving the defense, etc. With Penning in the lineup the Saints did not merely have a soft spot, they had a black hole that sucked in the entire offense and gave the defense a numerical advantage on every down. Add to that, Penning never even proved himself at a decent college program, the most he has ever done is dominate at a Juco or whatever.

Penning could turn it around. Just like Tim Boyle could. Or Keith Kirkwood could be the next Megatron. Or Adam Prentice, while already established as a blocker, could earn additional reps as a receiver and ball carrier and lead the NFL in all purpose yards in 2024. But those things are not likely to happen. Penning's future is ahead of him. But the past is the key to the future, and his past he has showed much less than Jonathan Sullivan or Cesar Ruiz. He is tracking to be more of a Stanley Jean Baptiste except we reached into the 1st round for him. Saying Penning is not a bust because you never know is like saying Baptiste was not a bust going into his 3rd year.

[neugey]

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

In the same sense that Tim Boyle's career is not over, Trevor Penning's career is not over. You never know. But at the same time you have to be realistic if you want to plan to compete and plan to have a safe offensive line for your skill position players.

Great comments. The belief Mickey and the org has in Penning is not rational. We could sign 10 different UDFA OL following the draft and I bet 9 out of 10 of them would be better than Penning. At the very least we need to unlock the roster spot and put him on the practice squad. If some team is nuts enough to claim Penning off waivers then we get a wee bit of cap space back and a big problem off of our hands.

[AsylumGuido]

All I can say is that the Saints see Penning practice every day while we have only seen glimpses. We all know that offensive linemen are one of the very hardest positions to fill in the entire NFL (if not the hardest) and are also some of the longest to develop. I still trust the management's judgement on personnel over anyone here by an extremely large volume. If he sticks around it's because he has the potential. If he wasn't on the roster I will guarantee you that he would be snatched up in a second because every other team in the league are always in need for the positions, developmental or not.

[BakoSaint]

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

All I can say is that the Saints see Penning practice every day while we have only seen glimpses. We all know that offensive linemen are one of the very hardest positions to fill in the entire NFL (if not the hardest) and are also some of the longest to develop. I still trust the management's judgement on personnel over anyone here by an extremely large volume. If he sticks around it's because he has the potential. If he wasn't on the roster I will guarantee you that he would be snatched up in a second because every other team in the league are always in need for the positions, developmental or not.

The Saints front office saw Trevor Penning practice every day before last season too. Then they gave him the starting gig at the most important position on the oline. Then we all saw what happened on the field. They also saw Andrus Peat in practice every day, thought he was a Guard, and we all saw what happened when he was returned to his only true position of Left Tackle. So at some point you have to reconcile the people who get to see more making decisions that are clearly wrong when others get to see. Some reasonable conclusions would be that our coaches and front office or imbeciles, that they are in denial, or that they will suspend disbelief in a futile last ditch attempt to justify their draft blunders. You can't just go on forever saying how blind men in the penthouse suite no more than all of us because they have the best view.

OT is a scarce position, just as is CB. Lots of teams need talented corners. Thats why Stanley Jean Baptiste was snatched up in a second when we cut him, and got time in camps / practice squad / bench with 5 other teams. I have no doubt other teams would take a flier on Penning. The Patriots traded a backup for Jonathan Sullivan. But just because other teams will take a flier does not mean the chance of Penning panning out are more than 5% given his horrible track record.

As a practical matter, Penning's contract is fully guaranteed. Cutting him will cost not save money. He will likely be on the roster in 2024. But realistically we should view him as depth in case Landon Young is hurt. Anything more that he achieves is a bonus, but an unlikely one. Yes its a hard position, but right now Landon Young is doing it better. If Penning continues to prove absolutely unplayable even as a backup, eventually we may need to cut him for the roster spot, but it saves us absolutely nothing and costs cap in the short term, so I doubt that will be soon when he can just be inactive every week if needed and all we lose is the ability to protect one practice squad player.

[K Major]

According to Greg Cosell, the 2024 draft class is full of quality tackles with good grades. Saints would be silly not target another o-lineman.

I wouldn't wait for the light to come on with Penning.

If the Saints want to truly compete (deep post season runs) with the big boys, you have to start hitting on your draft selections.

Cam Jordan, Demario, Maye, Mathieu, Ramz, MT etc ... aging (30+) players on a old roster.

[iceshack149]

I'm not ready to call Penning a bust yet. It took Peat, Stinchcomb, and Strief some time if I recall. The entire O-line seemed to regress last year so maybe Marrone needs to change his teaching style or philosophy.

[AsylumGuido]

Originally Posted by iceshack149

I'm not ready to call Penning a bust yet. It took Peat, Stinchcomb, and Strief some time if I recall. The entire O-line seemed to regress last year so maybe Marrone needs to change his teaching style or philosophy.

Exactly. Offensive line has conventionally taken longer to develop than most every other position group in the game. I think they are well worth the extra investment in time and money given their importance, scarcity, and longevity. It's become fairly common to see good offensive linemen perform into their late 30's and even early 40's.

[Crusader]

All y'all are making some good points and I might have been okay with Penning taking time to develop if he was drafted in the 4th round or later. But we spent a first rounde on him that so far seems like a complete waste. He needs to get better quick.

[AsylumGuido]

Originally Posted by Crusader

All y'all are making some good points and I might have been okay with Penning taking time to develop if he was drafted in the 4th round or later. But we spent a first rounde on him that so far seems like a complete waste. He needs to get better quick.

I get where you're coming from, but offensive linemen, as you know, are very hard come by and like it or not things are what they are. You don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. Penning is by no means the first offensive lineman drafted in the first round in this league that wasn't ready to earn the starting gig day one and I'll guarantee you he won't be the last. I think that's just the nature of the beast. To keep the clichés going, you can't hit a homerun if you don't swing the bat and nobody bats 1.000.