Another analogy:

You can want with every fiber of your being to date a "10", but that doesn't mean that a "10" is attainable for you. Nice to have, but not realistic... especially when you're a "5" or "6"!

The fact is that you may realistically have a shot at a "7" or "8". So the bigger question remains... are you REALLY going to blow up everything and hold out for that "10" instead of shooting your shot for what you can reasonably expect to get? Or do you wreck shop praying for a miracle?

Discuss.

Another analogy:

You can want with every fiber of your being to date a "10", but that doesn't mean that a "10" is attainable for you. Nice to have, but not realistic... especially when you're a "5" or "6"!

The fact is that you may realistically have a shot at a "7" or "8". So the bigger question remains... are you REALLY going to blow up everything and hold out for that "10" instead of shooting your shot for what you can reasonably expect to get? Or do you wreck shop praying for a miracle?

Discuss.

The fallacy with your analogy is that it is your opinion that Carr and Allen can't get us all the way there. I believe whole-heartedly that they can. They may, in fact, give us the best chance we'll see in the next few decades for all we know. Your hatred guides your every thought process. You make the narrative fit your hate. Not only do you blindly feel that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but you see the grass beneath your feet as something vile and barren.

You have to face the fact that not everyone feels the way you do. There's the sinner guy and the cowpattie guy, of course, but that's sure nothing to hang your hat on. Pretty much everyone around here thinks they are just hate spewing flunkies, as well.

fallacy in your view it is only YOUR opinion.... get it. Everyone has one, some are right and some are wrong, such as yours.

That sort of rebuilding commonly results in that generational failure that you mentioned. I've been living with my Saints since 1967 and what we have today is miles ahead of most of those dismal years.

See Guido the problem is you are paralyzed by fear, afraid of the team taking any risk, and willing to settle for being middle of the pack forever just out of fear of being left out of the pack.

1967 is not relevant today. Fearing a repeat of the Saints struggles from 1967-1986 is the fallacy because the conditions are so different that cannot happen again. This is a different league. The salary cap changed everything and much else has changed. Revenues have increased greatly and the shared revenues are so large that all teams are well funded. The media has gone from local newspaper reporters to 24/7 cable news, bloggers, podcasts, etc. Advanced stats and analytics are available to everyone. In the Saints early years they probably drafted picks their scouts had only seen play once or twice, or only read about in newspaper articles. Now a salary cap assures the Saints have similar resources to every team, if they fall behind they can lure away other teams players, no rival can afford to maintain incredible depth. The draft is coming down to a science with a lot more information than in those early years. The Saints will no longer draft a punter with the 1st round pick or keep trading away their 1st round picks for aging washed up stars because with lack of scouting data they did not really know who to pick and with financial pressure they needed immediate returns. They won't struggle with substandard practice facilities. Our division rivals won't be able to afford having Steve Young backup Joe Montana for 4 years, we will be able to sign one away if that happens.

Essentially Guido's goal for the Saints is the Marv Lewis Bengals. As he says, championships are not the goal, just being competitive and not having to relive the 67-86 Saints is the goal. Lewis's Bengals were 131-122 and has more winning seasons than losing seasons. And Marv Lewis is available, despite a much better coaching record than Dennis Allen.

But the thing is, in the post-free-agency NFL world, there are no 67-86 Saints, thats impossible, with free agency, a salary cap, and highly informed draft data nobody can be that bad that long ever again. Teams like the Bengals are the closest thing to the modern equivalent. The worst teams since the inception of free agency that come to mind are the Bengals, Browns, Raiders, Jets, etc. All those teams have gone to the playoffs. Two have gone to Super Bowls. And what is Guido's formula to avoid becoming like the 67-86 Saints? Get the Raiders head coach. Try to outbid the Browns for a troubled QB. When that fails, beat the Jets in a free agent bidding war for the Raiders QB. And be incredibly excited when in his 5th year of head coaching, facing one of the easiest schedules in history, your head coach has one season where his winning percentage resembles Bengals Marvin Lewis's career winning percentage.

Essentially what Guido has done is imprinted his fear of the worst that was possible 40-60 years ago so deeply in his psyche that he is willing to accept the worst that is possible in the modern NFL as a good favorable acceptable outcome. It is not. Dennis Allen is by all measures a worse head coach than Marvin Lewis. Derek Carr is getting closer to an aging Andy Dalton than a prime Andy Dalton. You can look at the Browns and complain about their many coaching and QB changes, but ultimately would it have been better if the Browns stuck with Butch Davis and Tim Couch? The Bills found Josh Allen after years of struggle. The Bengals found Joe Burrow after years of struggle. QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Andy Dalton did not prevent those years of struggle, they were part of them.

The message I have for Guido is to stop fearing and start dreaming, and don't be afraid to dream too big. Derek Carr is probably not the dream. Dennis Allen is probably not the dream. But the nightmare of the 67-86 Saints is the past. That can't happen in the modern in NFL with the salary cap, free agency, lots of data, and lessons learned. Lowering our standards to where the floor of the current NFL landscape is at may protect you from disappointment but it is no way to achieve success. Raise your standards. Make championships the goal. And then we may win some.

See Guido the problem is you are paralyzed by fear, afraid of the team taking any risk, and willing to settle for being middle of the pack forever just out of fear of being left out of the pack.

1967 is not relevant today. Fearing a repeat of the Saints struggles from 1967-1986 is the fallacy because the conditions are so different that cannot happen again. This is a different league. The salary cap changed everything and much else has changed. Revenues have increased greatly and the shared revenues are so large that all teams are well funded. The media has gone from local newspaper reporters to 24/7 cable news, bloggers, podcasts, etc. Advanced stats and analytics are available to everyone. In the Saints early years they probably drafted picks their scouts had only seen play once or twice, or only read about in newspaper articles. Now a salary cap assures the Saints have similar resources to every team, if they fall behind they can lure away other teams players, no rival can afford to maintain incredible depth. The draft is coming down to a science with a lot more information than in those early years. The Saints will no longer draft a punter with the 1st round pick or keep trading away their 1st round picks for aging washed up stars because with lack of scouting data they did not really know who to pick and with financial pressure they needed immediate returns. They won't struggle with substandard practice facilities. Our division rivals won't be able to afford having Steve Young backup Joe Montana for 4 years, we will be able to sign one away if that happens.

Essentially Guido's goal for the Saints is the Marv Lewis Bengals. As he says, championships are not the goal, just being competitive and not having to relive the 67-86 Saints is the goal. Lewis's Bengals were 131-122 and has more winning seasons than losing seasons. And Marv Lewis is available, despite a much better coaching record than Dennis Allen.

But the thing is, in the post-free-agency NFL world, there are no 67-86 Saints, thats impossible, with free agency, a salary cap, and highly informed draft data nobody can be that bad that long ever again. Teams like the Bengals are the closest thing to the modern equivalent. The worst teams since the inception of free agency that come to mind are the Bengals, Browns, Raiders, Jets, etc. All those teams have gone to the playoffs. Two have gone to Super Bowls. And what is Guido's formula to avoid becoming like the 67-86 Saints? Get the Raiders head coach. Try to outbid the Browns for a troubled QB. When that fails, beat the Jets in a free agent bidding war for the Raiders QB. And be incredibly excited when in his 5th year of head coaching, facing one of the easiest schedules in history, your head coach has one season where his winning percentage resembles Bengals Marvin Lewis's career winning percentage.

Essentially what Guido has done is imprinted his fear of the worst that was possible 40-60 years ago so deeply in his psyche that he is willing to accept the worst that is possible in the modern NFL as a good favorable acceptable outcome. It is not. Dennis Allen is by all measures a worse head coach than Marvin Lewis. Derek Carr is getting closer to an aging Andy Dalton than a prime Andy Dalton. You can look at the Browns and complain about their many coaching and QB changes, but ultimately would it have been better if the Browns stuck with Butch Davis and Tim Couch? The Bills found Josh Allen after years of struggle. The Bengals found Joe Burrow after years of struggle. QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Andy Dalton did not prevent those years of struggle, they were part of them.

The message I have for Guido is to stop fearing and start dreaming, and don't be afraid to dream too big. Derek Carr is probably not the dream. Dennis Allen is probably not the dream. But the nightmare of the 67-86 Saints is the past. That can't happen in the modern in NFL with the salary cap, free agency, lots of data, and lessons learned. Lowering our standards to where the floor of the current NFL landscape is at may protect you from disappointment but it is no way to achieve success. Raise your standards. Make championships the goal. And then we may win some.

You have the right to wish for what you wish. I have the right to hope for what I hope. Neither is guaranteed. Repeating it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again every day in every thread makes you far too easy to ignore (not referring to the available function), but is now resulting in many members totally ignoring the forum altogether having become completely exhausted with the constant drivel. You, sir, are full of crap and enjoy sharing it ad nauseum. Just stating fact.