My argument is two fold. Pete Carmichael is your excuse for Alvin Kamara having two down years. But those two down years are really the first half of 2023. And that is really Penning. In 2022 Carmichael had Andy Dalton and a rookie receiver to run the offense, and all things considered Carmichael got more out of Dalton than any coach in years had. You can't really fault Carmichael much on 2022 given what he had to work with. Then in 2023 expectations were raised because Loomis broke the bank to get Derek Carr who was supposed to be a major upgrade. Carmichael is seen as a failure because Carr did not prove a major upgrade in 2023, especially in the first half. Carr's faults aside, while you put this on Carmichael, I put it more on Penning. Forcing Penning to start blew the 2023 offense more than anything else I think. The six games he had to start, everyone else on the offense had to relearn their positions as Pennings blocking helpers first and everything else second. Carr got beat up badly while Penning was starting and never got healthy all year. When Carr got beat up he rushed throws and receivers got beat up. When Carr had nowhere else to go, he developed a habit of 2 yard checkdowns to the running backs that would be a great offense if 5 yards was a 1st down. Sure, after 6 games Penning went to the bench where he belonged and was not even used as a second string on oline because he didn't have the talent or athleticism to play the position. But all the consequences of Penning lasted beyond 6 games. Players were having to relearn their positions mid season after playing assistant left tackle for the first 6 games. Route trees were clouded by blocking assignments. Derek Carr was nursing his injuries from Pennings incompetance. Receivers were nursing their injuries from Carr's PTSD. Carr was struggling to get over bad habits developed behind Penning. Kamara was accustomed to those 2 yard checkdowns. Penning broke the entire offense, not Carmichael.

The problem I see is that in 2024 we got rid of Carmichael but are currently slating Penning to start, taking the massive leap from 3rd string where he finished last year to 1st string starting right tackle this year. I am not sure it will matter who the OC is. This time Penning will not protect Carr's blind side, but that just means Carr will be watching Penning struggle and going into panic mode even sooner. And Kamara will be looking for those check downs. And the receiving core will be having to help Penning instead of running their routes.

Your argument is nothing more than more hate.

Your argument is nothing more than more hate.

If the question is who is more responsible for our offensive struggles in 2023, my answer is Trevor Penning, and your answer is Pete Carmichael, don't you 'hate' Pete Carmichael as much as I 'hate' Trevor Penning?

If the question is who is more responsible for our offensive struggles in 2023, my answer is Trevor Penning, and your answer is Pete Carmichael, don't you 'hate' Pete Carmichael as much as I 'hate' Trevor Penning?

Some of us hate losing. We hate $ucking. And some don’t. At least we’re all honest about it.

That's a dishonest statement.

Okay. to be completely honest, I HATE LOSING. Is it dishonest to assume that many other Fans hate losing too?

Let’s start there…

You know that it's dishonest to assume that anyone here enjoys losing. No one here is happy with below average Saints teams. That said, most of us know that going to a Saints fan site crying every day about the team's poor quality over the last few years is futile. Most of us want to have a discussion about what we would do differently if we managed this team and what to look forward to as the season approaches.

If you're really being honest, you'd address the fact that you and a couple of other posters are here to troll and ruin this site.

You know that it's dishonest to assume that anyone here enjoys losing. No one here is happy with below average Saints teams. That said, most of us know that going to a Saints fan site crying every day about the team's poor quality over the last few years is futile. Most of us want to have a discussion about what we would do differently if we managed this team and what to look forward to as the season approaches.

If you're really being honest, you'd address the fact that you and a couple of other posters are here to troll and ruin this site.