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Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Per overthecap the Saints are $91 million over the 2025 cap: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints (click from 2024 over to 2025 after following the link) If the Saints decide to rebuild not kick the can, like if we don't make the playoffs this ...

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Old 07-27-2024, 01:08 PM   #1
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Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Per overthecap the Saints are $91 million over the 2025 cap:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints
(click from 2024 over to 2025 after following the link)

If the Saints decide to rebuild not kick the can, like if we don't make the playoffs this year and are 7-10 or something like some analysts have predicted, here is what a rebuild could look like:

$91.5 million over 2025 cap:
-$30 million Derek Carr Designated Post-June-1 cut.
-$21 million Marson Lattimore Designated Post-June-1 cut.
-$18 million Ryan Ramczyk Agrees to Reduce 2025 Salary to $1 million as cap maneuver then Retires or Cut Post-June-1.
-$19 million Alvin Kamara Pre-June-1 cut.
-$2 million Foster Moreau Pre-June-1 cut.
-$1.5 million Jamaal Williams contract automatically voids 3/15/25.
= -$92 million.

Certainly a rebuild could also include players like Jordan, Hill, or Mathieu moving on, but this is just a simple scenario to show the math.

I know this is hypothetical and there are some timing issues but it is a realistic way the Saints could quickly rebuild if the aging core does not win in 2024 with Derek Carr. Technically, designated post-june-1 cuts don't actually lower cap until June 1 and we have to be under the cap at all times, but the $51 million from Carr and Lattimore could be saved in the interim by converting salary of players such as McCoy, Jordan, Hill, Granderson, Ruiz, Davis, Mathieu, etc either via restructure or to a bonus that triggers after June 1. Then post june 1 when that money comes in, it gives us money to sign draft picks and extensions for young stars. Reducing Ram's salary to $1 million would have an immediate effect even if his actual retirement is post June 1 as long as he agrees to it. If Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Kamara, or Lattimore decided to retire, which depending on how 2024 goes could all be possible, similar moves could be made there. Also, the Saints are currently $11 million under the 2024 salary cap, and if that money is not spent, it would carry over. I don't think under the cap is already counting that but I am not sure.

Anyway, I just wanted to show that a rebuild could be realistic in 2025 thanks to our restraint in 2024. I don't know if we will move on from Carr, but if we don't see improvement, it would seem logical to move on if we can and especially not to restructure in a way that could force paying him $50 million 2025 and/or having to extend him beyond 2025 to restructure the $50 million. At this point I think its very clear we would not want to pay Ram and Lattimore their $18-25 million salaries in 2025 or make long term restructures for them. We drafted their replacements in the the 2024 draft. So at a minimum I expect us to move on from Ram and Lattimore, with Kamara also likely if he does not have a major resurgence or we don't do a stupid pre-emptive extension before we know.

I don't think a Saints team would be un-competitive with this rebuild. Its realistic that Fuaga can replace Ram, Kool Aid or Taylor can replace Lattimore, Miller or a rookie draft pick or a cheap veteran like Cooks or Elliott can replace the level of production we have seen from Kamara in 22-23, and one of our young QBs or a 1st round pick QB or a discounted cast-away like the deal the Steelers got on Russell Wilson can replace Carr. And then we would have tons of more cap room in 2026-2027 to sign younger players. And we would get to watch a young QB whose ceiling we dont know, who could maybe be the next Purdy, Mahomes, Hurts, Jackson, etc.
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Old 07-27-2024, 01:26 PM   #2
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
Per overthecap the Saints are $91 million over the 2025 cap:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints
(click from 2024 over to 2025 after following the link)

If the Saints decide to rebuild not kick the can, like if we don't make the playoffs this year and are 7-10 or something like some analysts have predicted, here is what a rebuild could look like:

$91.5 million over 2025 cap:
-$30 million Derek Carr Designated Post-June-1 cut.
-$21 million Marson Lattimore Designated Post-June-1 cut.
-$18 million Ryan Ramczyk Agrees to Reduce 2025 Salary to $1 million as cap maneuver then Retires or Cut Post-June-1.
-$19 million Alvin Kamara Pre-June-1 cut.
-$2 million Foster Moreau Pre-June-1 cut.
-$1.5 million Jamaal Williams contract automatically voids 3/15/25.
= -$92 million.

Certainly a rebuild could also include players like Jordan, Hill, or Mathieu moving on, but this is just a simple scenario to show the math.

I know this is hypothetical and there are some timing issues but it is a realistic way the Saints could quickly rebuild if the aging core does not win in 2024 with Derek Carr. Technically, designated post-june-1 cuts don't actually lower cap until June 1 and we have to be under the cap at all times, but the $51 million from Carr and Lattimore could be saved in the interim by converting salary of players such as McCoy, Jordan, Hill, Granderson, Ruiz, Davis, Mathieu, etc either via restructure or to a bonus that triggers after June 1. Then post june 1 when that money comes in, it gives us money to sign draft picks and extensions for young stars. Reducing Ram's salary to $1 million would have an immediate effect even if his actual retirement is post June 1 as long as he agrees to it. If Jordan, Mathieu, Hill, Kamara, or Lattimore decided to retire, which depending on how 2024 goes could all be possible, similar moves could be made there. Also, the Saints are currently $11 million under the 2024 salary cap, and if that money is not spent, it would carry over. I don't think under the cap is already counting that but I am not sure.

Anyway, I just wanted to show that a rebuild could be realistic in 2025 thanks to our restraint in 2024. I don't know if we will move on from Carr, but if we don't see improvement, it would seem logical to move on if we can and especially not to restructure in a way that could force paying him $50 million 2025 and/or having to extend him beyond 2025 to restructure the $50 million. At this point I think its very clear we would not want to pay Ram and Lattimore their $18-25 million salaries in 2025 or make long term restructures for them. We drafted their replacements in the the 2024 draft. So at a minimum I expect us to move on from Ram and Lattimore, with Kamara also likely if he does not have a major resurgence or we don't do a stupid pre-emptive extension before we know.

I don't think a Saints team would be un-competitive with this rebuild. Its realistic that Fuaga can replace Ram, Kool Aid or Taylor can replace Lattimore, Miller or a rookie draft pick or a cheap veteran like Cooks or Elliott can replace the level of production we have seen from Kamara in 22-23, and one of our young QBs or a 1st round pick QB or a discounted cast-away like the deal the Steelers got on Russell Wilson can replace Carr. And then we would have tons of more cap room in 2026-2027 to sign younger players. And we would get to watch a young QB whose ceiling we dont know, who could maybe be the next Purdy, Mahomes, Hurts, Jackson, etc.
Very well illustrated. However,“rebuild could be realistic” and “logical” have not proven to be woven into our front office for quite some time now.
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Old 07-27-2024, 04:07 PM   #3
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

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Old 07-27-2024, 04:18 PM   #4
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Do you actually go out of your way to find this kind ^ of stupid @ss stuff?
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Old 07-27-2024, 05:51 PM   #5
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

If Carr stinks it up this year and we don’t look good I’m 100% okay with a full rebuild.
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Old 07-27-2024, 06:03 PM   #6
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
If Carr stinks it up this year and we don’t look good I’m 100% okay with a full rebuild.
I think we're in the middle of a soft rebuild. We didn't extend anyone besides Shaheed and we didn't throw away a bunch of draft picks to move up for a player who will spend too much time on the trainers table and not the field. If we lose badly I could see a rebuild coming but our defense is still good. If Klint Kubiak gets us moving in the right direction we could get caught up on the cap and be competitive in 2025. I do believe that we are headed in the right direction.
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Old 07-27-2024, 06:43 PM   #7
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

I for one do not think Carr will stink it up. Nor do I think we will struggle. I believe our already solid defense will take yet another step forward and our offense will shock certain fans with its progression.

To me it seems certain fans are hoping for failure because of the desire to replace preconceived personnel failures projected to save their own insecure face. I for one have never and will never hope for any negativity upon my beloved Saints for mine or anyone else's personal needs.

Who Dat!!

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Old 07-27-2024, 07:04 PM   #8
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
I for one do not think Carr will stink it up. Nor do I think we will struggle. I believe our already solid defense will take yet another step forward and our offense will shock certain fans with its progression.

To me it seems certain fans are hoping for failure because of the desire to replace preconceived personnel failures projected to save their own insecure face. I for one have never and will never hope for any negativity upon my beloved Saints for mine or anyone else's personal needs.

Who Dat!!

I’m hoping for 4,500 yards, 35 TD’s, and 8 picks.
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Old 07-27-2024, 07:08 PM   #9
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
I’m hoping for 4,500 yards, 35 TD’s, and 8 picks.
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Old 07-27-2024, 08:30 PM   #10
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Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
I’m hoping for 4,500 yards, 35 TD’s, and 8 picks.
I am hoping for the same except from Rattler because that way we would have $30 million more dollars and 10 more years of that performance. There are also 10 years of stats that say Carr can’t hit those numbers and 0 years of stats that say Rattler or Haener can’t.
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