The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum

jnormand · 02-17-2025, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Plural. Years.

It’s going to take a while to clean up this mess that has happened over the last 4-5 years with Loomis.

Restructures, cuts, new scheme, culture etc.

Saints MUST rebuild this team through the draft. That is the only way you are going to become competitive at this level & not just winning 8 or 9 games & drawing up some mathematical equation to ensure a playoff (4 years and counting) spot.

I hope Kellen Moore is up to the task. It’s going to be a difficult road ahead.

I agree. This team is gonna be a basement dweller for at least the next 2 seasons.

That said, I look forward to and am hopeful for the gradual improvements.

Danno · 02-17-2025, 03:54 PM

I don't think were any worse off than Atlanta and Carolina and we're probably only a game behind Tampa.

It may not take as long as you guys think to be back in contention for the NFC South, but we'll have to knock the draft out of the park.

I'm curious what Meuller brings to the war room.

Rugby Saint II · 02-21-2025, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

That brings to mind... should we use the RAS score system for the Saints fans of today?

Every metric we can come up with points to moving on from Carr as soon as possible for the sake of the best cap implications.

Everything that the RAS tells us....is don't trust stats and potential in the early rounds. Draft proven players!

BakoSaint · 02-23-2025, 12:32 PM

Just a thought but maybe the Saints should let Carr do what the Rams are letting Stafford do, let him and his agent talk to other teams under the premise of considering a trade. I do not think that any others teams would want to trade for Carr unless the price was very low (we could even say that the trade could be a swap of 7th rounders and we would consider taking the later 7th rounder) and Carr would accept a pay cut.

The thing is that Carr has said he won't take a pay cut. But that might be because his agent is blowing sunshine up his butt about great contracts other veteran QBs have gotten in the past and how he might get more than ever on the free agent market. But thats what agents do, promise the world and hope to deliver.

The advantage to letting Derek Carr talk to every other team in the league is that he might realize that this is not a normal year. Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford, Cousins, and Carr could all be available, flooding the market with an oversupply of older QBs. At the same time, the trend in the league is younger QBs, and unlike years past where Brady, Brees, Manning, etc were playoff regulars, only one older QB won a one playoff game this year. This is a copycat league. The veteran QB market is going to crash. If we let Carr talk to other teams, he might realize that his market value is $20-25 million per year, and change his tune on taking a pay cut, knowing that if he hits the free agent market even a $25 million deal (which the Saints would get $10 million of back from his guaranteed roster bonus due to offset language) is far from a sure thing.

jnormand · 02-23-2025, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Just a thought but maybe the Saints should let Carr do what the Rams are letting Stafford do, let him and his agent talk to other teams under the premise of considering a trade. I do not think that any others teams would want to trade for Carr unless the price was very low (we could even say that the trade could be a swap of 7th rounders and we would consider taking the later 7th rounder) and Carr would accept a pay cut.

The thing is that Carr has said he won't take a pay cut. But that might be because his agent is blowing sunshine up his butt about great contracts other veteran QBs have gotten in the past and how he might get more than ever on the free agent market. But thats what agents do, promise the world and hope to deliver.

The advantage to letting Derek Carr talk to every other team in the league is that he might realize that this is not a normal year. Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford, Cousins, and Carr could all be available, flooding the market with an oversupply of older QBs. At the same time, the trend in the league is younger QBs, and unlike years past where Brady, Brees, Manning, etc were playoff regulars, only one older QB won a one playoff game this year. This is a copycat league. The veteran QB market is going to crash. If we let Carr talk to other teams, he might realize that his market value is $20-25 million per year, and change his tune on taking a pay cut, knowing that if he hits the free agent market even a $25 million deal (which the Saints would get $10 million of back from his guaranteed roster bonus due to offset language) is far from a sure thing.

I’m all for all of that and either start developing our younger QBs or wait until next year and draft one.

Thing is, I feel it’s highly unlikely that Carr gets released or agrees to a trade.

He’s not a bad dude. And if he had enough talent around him he would be pretty good. Thing is, he doesn’t have that much talent around him and he is not the type of QB that elevates others.

He’ll probably be the day one starter this year. But I don’t see him here next year unless he lights the league on fire.

Rugby Saint II · 02-23-2025, 04:02 PM

Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'.

K Major · 02-23-2025, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'.

Good coaches & a proven GM.

They also have a young, talented roster.

BakoSaint · 02-23-2025, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'.

Denver did not have the biggest salary cap deficit in the league by a large margin with about the oldest roster in the league when Payton took over. Also Denver did not truly turn the corner with Payton until they cut bait on a mediocre QB making $40 million who many argued was better than trusting some unproven rookie.

We can follow denvers model but that model requires getting our cap right and cutting the mediocre old QB and other old expensive unproductive players. But since we are in worse cap position than Denver we cant wait a year to cut Carr we need to do it now.

02-17-2025, 03:43 PM	#41
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,785	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by K Major Plural. Years. It’s going to take a while to clean up this mess that has happened over the last 4-5 years with Loomis. Restructures, cuts, new scheme, culture etc. Saints MUST rebuild this team through the draft. That is the only way you are going to become competitive at this level & not just winning 8 or 9 games & drawing up some mathematical equation to ensure a playoff (4 years and counting) spot. I hope Kellen Moore is up to the task. It’s going to be a difficult road ahead. I agree. This team is gonna be a basement dweller for at least the next 2 seasons. That said, I look forward to and am hopeful for the gradual improvements.

02-17-2025, 03:54 PM	#42
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum I don't think were any worse off than Atlanta and Carolina and we're probably only a game behind Tampa. It may not take as long as you guys think to be back in contention for the NFC South, but we'll have to knock the draft out of the park. I'm curious what Meuller brings to the war room. saintsfan1976 and AsylumGuido like this.

02-21-2025, 06:21 PM	#43
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,200	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by SmashMouth That brings to mind... should we use the RAS score system for the Saints fans of today? Every metric we can come up with points to moving on from Carr as soon as possible for the sake of the best cap implications. Everything that the RAS tells us....is don't trust stats and potential in the early rounds. Draft proven players!

02-23-2025, 12:32 PM	#44
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Just a thought but maybe the Saints should let Carr do what the Rams are letting Stafford do, let him and his agent talk to other teams under the premise of considering a trade. I do not think that any others teams would want to trade for Carr unless the price was very low (we could even say that the trade could be a swap of 7th rounders and we would consider taking the later 7th rounder) and Carr would accept a pay cut. The thing is that Carr has said he won't take a pay cut. But that might be because his agent is blowing sunshine up his butt about great contracts other veteran QBs have gotten in the past and how he might get more than ever on the free agent market. But thats what agents do, promise the world and hope to deliver. The advantage to letting Derek Carr talk to every other team in the league is that he might realize that this is not a normal year. Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford, Cousins, and Carr could all be available, flooding the market with an oversupply of older QBs. At the same time, the trend in the league is younger QBs, and unlike years past where Brady, Brees, Manning, etc were playoff regulars, only one older QB won a one playoff game this year. This is a copycat league. The veteran QB market is going to crash. If we let Carr talk to other teams, he might realize that his market value is $20-25 million per year, and change his tune on taking a pay cut, knowing that if he hits the free agent market even a $25 million deal (which the Saints would get $10 million of back from his guaranteed roster bonus due to offset language) is far from a sure thing. neugey likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433

02-23-2025, 01:08 PM	#45
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,785	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by BakoSaint Just a thought but maybe the Saints should let Carr do what the Rams are letting Stafford do, let him and his agent talk to other teams under the premise of considering a trade. I do not think that any others teams would want to trade for Carr unless the price was very low (we could even say that the trade could be a swap of 7th rounders and we would consider taking the later 7th rounder) and Carr would accept a pay cut. The thing is that Carr has said he won't take a pay cut. But that might be because his agent is blowing sunshine up his butt about great contracts other veteran QBs have gotten in the past and how he might get more than ever on the free agent market. But thats what agents do, promise the world and hope to deliver. The advantage to letting Derek Carr talk to every other team in the league is that he might realize that this is not a normal year. Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford, Cousins, and Carr could all be available, flooding the market with an oversupply of older QBs. At the same time, the trend in the league is younger QBs, and unlike years past where Brady, Brees, Manning, etc were playoff regulars, only one older QB won a one playoff game this year. This is a copycat league. The veteran QB market is going to crash. If we let Carr talk to other teams, he might realize that his market value is $20-25 million per year, and change his tune on taking a pay cut, knowing that if he hits the free agent market even a $25 million deal (which the Saints would get $10 million of back from his guaranteed roster bonus due to offset language) is far from a sure thing. I’m all for all of that and either start developing our younger QBs or wait until next year and draft one. Thing is, I feel it’s highly unlikely that Carr gets released or agrees to a trade. He’s not a bad dude. And if he had enough talent around him he would be pretty good. Thing is, he doesn’t have that much talent around him and he is not the type of QB that elevates others. He’ll probably be the day one starter this year. But I don’t see him here next year unless he lights the league on fire.

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02-23-2025, 04:02 PM	#46
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,200	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'.

02-23-2025, 04:23 PM	#47
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,853 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'. Good coaches & a proven GM. They also have a young, talented roster.

02-23-2025, 05:18 PM	#48
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433	Re: The Saints Could Theoretically Give Derek Carr A True Pay Cut Ultimatum Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Denver looked pretty good after just one season with Payton. Just sayin'. Denver did not have the biggest salary cap deficit in the league by a large margin with about the oldest roster in the league when Payton took over. Also Denver did not truly turn the corner with Payton until they cut bait on a mediocre QB making $40 million who many argued was better than trusting some unproven rookie. We can follow denvers model but that model requires getting our cap right and cutting the mediocre old QB and other old expensive unproductive players. But since we are in worse cap position than Denver we cant wait a year to cut Carr we need to do it now.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,433