Aaron Brooks 2 touchdowns away from breacking archies record

lynwood · 11-13-2005, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by CruiserK

His achievements are right there in black and white. The stats are not garbage they are stats, are Archie's stats garbage? No they are just stats. Aaron had to lead the team in order for the Rams to attempt a comeback and for Hakim to drop the ball they were attempting to comeback from a deficit that the Saints led by Aaron Brooks placed them in. You guys are impossible. Like I said to each his own. 4th quarter comebacks are enough for anyone a Win is a Win the last time I checked. As for Canton I never said that Brooks would make it. I implied that both he and Archie would never make it. Have fun tearing down the best QB to wear the Black and Gold and when he is gone then what? Some of you just live to bash Brooks, I hope you are equally as critical of his replacement when and or if they don't get it done to your liking. These post hold you all accountable.

Cruiser K

That seems to be the main concern of Brooks defenders here on this board. Will the people that " bash" brooks do the same with his replacement. I can say that as far as i'm concerned that would be a yes. It doesn't matter who is our qb is, if he plays poorly and costs us games(which by the way you guys seem to forget about Brooks) then i'll be equally critical.

Whoopie one playoff game. Lets make him the greatest qb to ever play the game. Whoopie he threw for over 3000yards !! How about he fumbled more times in the redzone and gave the oppsing defenses great field posistions on other fumbles and interceptions. Say what you want by looking at stats. I look at the game and he sucks. Bottom line. Most people on this forum agree that he needs to be replaced immediatly. And honestly who really cares about comparing brooks to archie. Two different qb's in two different football time periods. AND yes those stats are garbage stats. When you put your team so far behind by making rookie mistakes and not producing that all you can do is pass the ball to tey and catch up....yes garbage stats. He'll have some records in the books but noone will care. People are more upset about brooks breaking records than not. Why is that I wonder. Keep playing your fantasy football for stats. I'll watch the real game for wins and loses.

lynwood · 11-13-2005, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

The last time I checked the records it shows the Saints won that play off came doesn't say they won 'because of' If the Rams played a good game then that one play shouldn't have mattered... I guess we technically won that game because a Saint recovered the fumble that that he dropped it.

Euph, I'll agree with you on this. A win is a win. But to focus on brooks being a great saints qb because he was in the right place at the right time well i don't agree with. He was the qb during our first playoff win. OK. He holds some records in the saints books. OK. Greates saints qb ever? NO FRIGGIN WAY. My only hope is that he does go to another team and we get a another view of him for comparison. and honestly i wish he would have been benched so that he felt his starting job was in jeapordy and maybe play a litttle more more like a pro and not a rookie.

CruiserK · 11-13-2005, 06:36 PM

Aaron Brooks stats place him clearly in position as the best QB to where the Black and Gold. Where is the fantasy in that, that is not fantasy that is reality! As for his NFL Blooper highlights all QB's make them. Look it up in the garbage stats as you call them and you will see Archie is equally as high in turnovers, interceptions and fumbles. I have NFL Direct TV and I make it my business to watch all the games, I am not just looking at stats in newspapers. But the stats do serve their purpose. As far as comparing Brooks to Archie, you must have forgotten the title of this subject "Aaron Brooks 2 TD's away from breaking Archies record. It would appear I am more on subject than you. True neither are great QB's, True nothing comes from these comparisions, Just done to enlighten some who I am now convinced are already enlightened but in denial. I am glad that you just want the Saints to field a winner and so do I, maybe Brooks time is up and I am O.K. with that but if it is I am not going to deny him his accomplishments as so many of you are attempting to do. I don't recall any one on this site denying Archie his. I am not denying Archie his accomplishments I am clearly enlightining
those that whish to deny that Aaron is worthy of this accomplishment that the Subject title reads. He earned this .

Cruiser K

CheramieIII · 11-13-2005, 06:50 PM

Hey Cruiser, since you brought up the stats comparison in your argument, why don't you go get some that show AB is better than Archie?. Then comeback or maybe you won't comeback because the stats you mention don't exist. It's just like Mark Rypien (he just happen to be there) winning the superbowl, never heard of him before or after and it should have been the same way with Brooks. The Running back too, but I have heard of him since, in a cocaine deal gone bad in Denver, almost 20 years later.

CruiserK · 11-13-2005, 07:00 PM

The stats you are asking for that show Brooks is better than Archie are right there in Black and Gold and the subject of this title, Brooks leads Archie in every positive statistical stat for QB's in New Orleans except total yardage and TD passes. And as you well know TD passes will very soon in a matter of weeks belong to Brooks as well. Don't believe me look it up. It is right there on NFL.com stats and the New Orleans Saints Official Website under History and Records.

I don't have to go get them if you have been a NFL and Saints fan you already know this.
I qouted you the source now you go get them.

Cruiser K

CHACHING · 11-13-2005, 07:17 PM

Did Archie ever throw a pass backwards to a lineman???
Did Archie come in second on the "most fumble" list?
Did archie blow a season(2002) when we only had to win 1 outta 3 games(to losing teams) to make the playoffs?
Brooks blows....stats or not....I'll take a win over a stat all day......JMFO!

lynwood · 11-13-2005, 07:26 PM

His stats placing him to be the best QB in black and gold is an opinion. Can't deny his stats but the best...no way. I'd rather have a QB that usues his head and can lead a team and not win than a QB that has tons of stats but makes mistakes that kills his team over and over. Stats don't make a leader, stats don't make a winner. When you make a game one dimensional then those stats will be great. Where has AB been since his one playoff win? Making the same mistakes, killing drives but adding to his passing yards. once again whoopie.

CheramieIII · 11-13-2005, 07:39 PM

Hey Cruiser, here are some stats for you. I got these from the official site:

Most Fumbles (career): Archie 62 - AB 55 I did not count this year either which would put AB half the number of years as Archie.

Most Fumbles (game): 4 AB, sorry Archie wasn't listed.

Most Fumbles (season): 15 AB, sorry Archie wasn't listed.

Completion % (career): 56.5 AB - 55.4 Archie. You got me there.

Consecutive Passes completed: Archie 15

Times Sacked (career): 337 Archie - 176 AB. AB's don't include this season and once again he is only half way to Archie's career.

Times Sacked (season): 50 AB - 49 Archie. No damn intelligence.

Scoring Game: Archie 18 points. 3 rushing TD's in one game. Brook's is to scared to even try.

Highest Rushing Average in Saints history: Archie 5.7 yards per carry. Now that's a QB that can run.

Tell me your stats again, besides one or two and I gave you one of them in the post, there are not too many.

Waiting for an accurate, thought out reply, not just go find the information for yourself reply.

lynwood · 11-13-2005, 07:57 PM

Wow and in Half the time of Archie's career. should put the stat up of how much archie was paid vs. Brooks and see who earned their money. Go ahead and adjust for inflation and lets see who is overpaid.

xan · 11-13-2005, 08:55 PM

It should be noted, just to make things apples to apples (which I'm sure that CruiserK would happily concede or forever be banished to the level of ranting idiot), that the stats that Cher listed above for Archie are over his entire 11 year career and AB's are for (so far) less than half that. AB's rate of mistakes is higher. In addition, Archie Manning played in an era where contact downfield went beyond 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, not like AB where the recievers are swathed in cotton and have UN diplomatic immunity.

It should also be noted that the Saints were going to make the playoffs with one more win after Blake went down. AB went 3-3 as a starter that year, which doesn't put him in the elite column either, beating cellar dwellars Atlanta, SF and losing to Denver and St. Louis. Credit more to the entire team at that point, including and more importantly Ricky Williams, for that win. AB was also playing against one of the most porous defenses in the league in that game, and still, could not mount a drive in the 4th quarter when a first down was essential.

By the way, AB has never sniffed the Pro Bowl, All Pro or other season awards, while Archie Manning went twice and was NFC MVP. Manning has also been lauded as NFL Man of the Year for his community activities while a Saint. AB's MIA in that regard, too.

11-13-2005, 06:14 PM	#21
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Originally Posted by CruiserK His achievements are right there in black and white. The stats are not garbage they are stats, are Archie's stats garbage? No they are just stats. Aaron had to lead the team in order for the Rams to attempt a comeback and for Hakim to drop the ball they were attempting to comeback from a deficit that the Saints led by Aaron Brooks placed them in. You guys are impossible. Like I said to each his own. 4th quarter comebacks are enough for anyone a Win is a Win the last time I checked. As for Canton I never said that Brooks would make it. I implied that both he and Archie would never make it. Have fun tearing down the best QB to wear the Black and Gold and when he is gone then what? Some of you just live to bash Brooks, I hope you are equally as critical of his replacement when and or if they don't get it done to your liking. These post hold you all accountable. Cruiser K That seems to be the main concern of Brooks defenders here on this board. Will the people that " bash" brooks do the same with his replacement. I can say that as far as i'm concerned that would be a yes. It doesn't matter who is our qb is, if he plays poorly and costs us games(which by the way you guys seem to forget about Brooks) then i'll be equally critical. Whoopie one playoff game. Lets make him the greatest qb to ever play the game. Whoopie he threw for over 3000yards !! How about he fumbled more times in the redzone and gave the oppsing defenses great field posistions on other fumbles and interceptions. Say what you want by looking at stats. I look at the game and he sucks. Bottom line. Most people on this forum agree that he needs to be replaced immediatly. And honestly who really cares about comparing brooks to archie. Two different qb's in two different football time periods. AND yes those stats are garbage stats. When you put your team so far behind by making rookie mistakes and not producing that all you can do is pass the ball to tey and catch up....yes garbage stats. He'll have some records in the books but noone will care. People are more upset about brooks breaking records than not. Why is that I wonder. Keep playing your fantasy football for stats. I'll watch the real game for wins and loses.

11-13-2005, 06:20 PM	#22
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Originally Posted by Euphoria The last time I checked the records it shows the Saints won that play off came doesn't say they won 'because of' If the Rams played a good game then that one play shouldn't have mattered... I guess we technically won that game because a Saint recovered the fumble that that he dropped it. Euph, I'll agree with you on this. A win is a win. But to focus on brooks being a great saints qb because he was in the right place at the right time well i don't agree with. He was the qb during our first playoff win. OK. He holds some records in the saints books. OK. Greates saints qb ever? NO FRIGGIN WAY. My only hope is that he does go to another team and we get a another view of him for comparison. and honestly i wish he would have been benched so that he felt his starting job was in jeapordy and maybe play a litttle more more like a pro and not a rookie.

11-13-2005, 06:36 PM	#23
CruiserK Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11	Aaron Brooks stats place him clearly in position as the best QB to where the Black and Gold. Where is the fantasy in that, that is not fantasy that is reality! As for his NFL Blooper highlights all QB's make them. Look it up in the garbage stats as you call them and you will see Archie is equally as high in turnovers, interceptions and fumbles. I have NFL Direct TV and I make it my business to watch all the games, I am not just looking at stats in newspapers. But the stats do serve their purpose. As far as comparing Brooks to Archie, you must have forgotten the title of this subject "Aaron Brooks 2 TD's away from breaking Archies record. It would appear I am more on subject than you. True neither are great QB's, True nothing comes from these comparisions, Just done to enlighten some who I am now convinced are already enlightened but in denial. I am glad that you just want the Saints to field a winner and so do I, maybe Brooks time is up and I am O.K. with that but if it is I am not going to deny him his accomplishments as so many of you are attempting to do. I don't recall any one on this site denying Archie his. I am not denying Archie his accomplishments I am clearly enlightining those that whish to deny that Aaron is worthy of this accomplishment that the Subject title reads. He earned this . Cruiser K
CruiserK Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11

11-13-2005, 07:00 PM	#25
CruiserK Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11	The stats you are asking for that show Brooks is better than Archie are right there in Black and Gold and the subject of this title, Brooks leads Archie in every positive statistical stat for QB's in New Orleans except total yardage and TD passes. And as you well know TD passes will very soon in a matter of weeks belong to Brooks as well. Don't believe me look it up. It is right there on NFL.com stats and the New Orleans Saints Official Website under History and Records. I don't have to go get them if you have been a NFL and Saints fan you already know this. I qouted you the source now you go get them. Cruiser K
CruiserK Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11

11-13-2005, 07:39 PM	#28
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Hey Cruiser, here are some stats for you. I got these from the official site: Most Fumbles (career): Archie 62 - AB 55 I did not count this year either which would put AB half the number of years as Archie. Most Fumbles (game): 4 AB, sorry Archie wasn't listed. Most Fumbles (season): 15 AB, sorry Archie wasn't listed. Completion % (career): 56.5 AB - 55.4 Archie. You got me there. Consecutive Passes completed: Archie 15 Times Sacked (career): 337 Archie - 176 AB. AB's don't include this season and once again he is only half way to Archie's career. Times Sacked (season): 50 AB - 49 Archie. No damn intelligence. Scoring Game: Archie 18 points. 3 rushing TD's in one game. Brook's is to scared to even try. Highest Rushing Average in Saints history: Archie 5.7 yards per carry. Now that's a QB that can run. Tell me your stats again, besides one or two and I gave you one of them in the post, there are not too many. Waiting for an accurate, thought out reply, not just go find the information for yourself reply.
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11-13-2005, 06:50 PM	#24
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Hey Cruiser, since you brought up the stats comparison in your argument, why don't you go get some that show AB is better than Archie?. Then comeback or maybe you won't comeback because the stats you mention don't exist. It's just like Mark Rypien (he just happen to be there) winning the superbowl, never heard of him before or after and it should have been the same way with Brooks. The Running back too, but I have heard of him since, in a cocaine deal gone bad in Denver, almost 20 years later.

11-13-2005, 07:17 PM	#26
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	Did Archie ever throw a pass backwards to a lineman??? Did Archie come in second on the "most fumble" list? Did archie blow a season(2002) when we only had to win 1 outta 3 games(to losing teams) to make the playoffs? Brooks blows....stats or not....I'll take a win over a stat all day......JMFO!

11-13-2005, 07:26 PM	#27
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	His stats placing him to be the best QB in black and gold is an opinion. Can't deny his stats but the best...no way. I'd rather have a QB that usues his head and can lead a team and not win than a QB that has tons of stats but makes mistakes that kills his team over and over. Stats don't make a leader, stats don't make a winner. When you make a game one dimensional then those stats will be great. Where has AB been since his one playoff win? Making the same mistakes, killing drives but adding to his passing yards. once again whoopie.

11-13-2005, 07:57 PM	#29
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Wow and in Half the time of Archie's career. should put the stat up of how much archie was paid vs. Brooks and see who earned their money. Go ahead and adjust for inflation and lets see who is overpaid.

11-13-2005, 08:55 PM	#30
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	It should be noted, just to make things apples to apples (which I'm sure that CruiserK would happily concede or forever be banished to the level of ranting idiot), that the stats that Cher listed above for Archie are over his entire 11 year career and AB's are for (so far) less than half that. AB's rate of mistakes is higher. In addition, Archie Manning played in an era where contact downfield went beyond 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, not like AB where the recievers are swathed in cotton and have UN diplomatic immunity. It should also be noted that the Saints were going to make the playoffs with one more win after Blake went down. AB went 3-3 as a starter that year, which doesn't put him in the elite column either, beating cellar dwellars Atlanta, SF and losing to Denver and St. Louis. Credit more to the entire team at that point, including and more importantly Ricky Williams, for that win. AB was also playing against one of the most porous defenses in the league in that game, and still, could not mount a drive in the 4th quarter when a first down was essential. By the way, AB has never sniffed the Pro Bowl, All Pro or other season awards, while Archie Manning went twice and was NFC MVP. Manning has also been lauded as NFL Man of the Year for his community activities while a Saint. AB's MIA in that regard, too.