Tobias-Reiper

.. I was about to post this on another thread, but figured I make it a thread of its own, because I find this very interesting.

Contrary to popular belief, the defense has played well this year... Here's why:

- Before yesterday, the Saints defense was the only defense to hold the Panthers to less than 21 points.

- Against the Giants, the Saints committed 6 turnovers, some in their own territory... what do you expect the defense to do?

- Held the Bills to 7 points

- Against the Vikings, a couple of things jump out:
the Saints defense had 7 sacks, and a sack usually stops a drive... but when you look at time of possession, you'll see that the Vikings held the ball almost twice as much as the Saints ( 38+ minutes vs 21+ minutes)... The reason? The Saints offense was 2 of 12 on 3rd downs and had 4 turnovers... I actually think it is a testament to the good play of the defense that they held the Vikings to field goals in the 4th quarter considering that they were on the field for almost 40 minutes.

- Against the Pack, 5 turnovers by the offense; 4 out of 16 3rd down convertions... Defense can't do much there either...

- Against the Falcons, they weren 't great, but they weren't horrible either... offense played good for a change...

- Against the Rams, they weren't great, but no horrible either... held the Rams to 21 points..

- Held the Dolphins to 19 points, created 2 turnovers; the Saints offense out-did itself by going 0-11 on 3rd downs, and scoring only 6 points...

- Against the Bears, the Defense created 3 turnovers. Points off those turnovers, 0. Offense out-did the Bears offense by turning the ball 4 times.

- Against the Pats, both offense and defense played decent, but the Pats made the plays when it counted...

SO, while no one is going to confuse the 2005 Saints defense with the 1985 Bears defense, they have actually been playing well... it seems it is the offense that stinks now

'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

saintswhodi

The offense stunk last year too TR. 12 straight games with no points in the first quarter? But you make a good point. I have a tweak though:

I thought they played pretty damn well against the Falcons. The Falcons got 21 points off turnovers, a theme for this season. More than half the total points we have given up have come off turnovers, well, at least until last week. It's prob about 50/50 now, which is just awful. The defense has played well enough for us to have won more games with a competent offense that didn't turn the ball over, and could convert a third down in the past 2-3 weeks.

TheDeuce

Good call on the Falcons game, that was definitely the offense/special teams' fault.

Also, another point that I would make is that even despite the relatively good statistical numbers, our defense has still not been able to make the BIG play when it counts. Holding the Falcons to seal overtime, third quarter touchdown that pretty much put the game out of reach against the Pats, etc. Also, penalties are still a big problem, but I would put most of the blame on the coaching for that one.

Overall, I have been very pleased with our defense, even though the entire team sucks. But still, they have a long way to go if this team wants to get to the playoffs.

4saintspirit

I think the main takeaway is that a lot of posters always blamed the defense for our losses and poor play. Now they cannot use that excuse. But I will add something -- we play good defense most of the game -- but in critical situations on 3rd and long we seem to let the firtst down occur.

Tobias-Reiper

..you either missed the point, or are making excuses for the offense.

THIRD quarter TD put the game out of reach against the Pats? 21-7 in the third quarter puts the game out of reach?

..and they DID hold the Falcons at the end of the game.. it was a special teams penalty that gave the Falcons the chance to kick the FG again...

...the coaching staff is not committing the false-starts or holdings...

... I don't know about you, but I think the defense creating a turnover, whether it is an interception or a fumble recovery, is a big play. The defense has been creating turnovers, but the offense is not scoring any points off them.

'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

yasoon

That's a confusing statement. The entire team actually does not suck. Tobias makes a great point. The defense has been very adequate this year....good enough to win some games. There have been breakdowns, but overall they have played well enough.

I have made this point several times over the last couple of years. Look at our point totals in our losses:

10 isn't gonna beat the Giants.
16 isn't gonna beat the Vikes.
3 isn't gonna beat anybody.
17 isn't gonna beat the Rams.
6 isn't gonna beat anybody.
17 COULD beat the bears, but look at Tobias' point about that game.

The Atlanta game is the only time that the offense has hit 24 all year. Think about that. 10 games in and we've broken 24 once. Very poor.

You can look at the Atl game and say they scored alot of points. But.....14 non offensive points plus a bonehead pick inside our 20.

This one is on the offense. The defense has played well enough to win 5-6 games. PERIOD.

TheGambler

On paper, the Saints D doesn't look bad. The problem as I've mentioned before, is that they can't close the deal at opportune times. I, too, get frustrated with the offense sputtering, but I also get frustrated with a defense allowing Ron Mexico to drive down the field in about 30 seconds. I get frustrated wtih them giving up a 40 + yard run to Chicago when we need them to hold just ONE MORE TIME.

You guys are right though. I've seen alot more RBs getting stuffed for 2 and 3 gard gains this season than I did last year. The D has definitely improved. However, the "key situations" thing is killing us. I get frustrated when our offense doesn't get enough first downs and put enough points on the board, but I also get frustrated when the D can't get people off the field when we need them to..

On a side note....I think the switch to Ronald McKinnon at LB has helped us out alot. Your thoughts?

yasoon

Agreed on McKinnon.

You are right. They still have that fantastic Saints timing where some painful plays occur, mental breakdowns, big runs in known run situations, etc.

The 98 yard drive was very indicitive of this. There were 3-4 times where it looked like they would get off the field, but they were just a hair off. And they still can't cover a TE. I blame the scheme as mush as the players.

Euphoria

Our D stinks... they may look good on PAPER but the key is not giving up big plays DUH... New England is so good because that is there focus...

yasoon

DUH.

Yes you are right. They say "hey guys...this week, we'll focus on not to giving up big plays"

Whereas, the Saints say "guys, let's focus on stopping 4 yard gains....big plays are OK"

If we could just shoot Venturi an email.....I think we could clear this up.

Nobody ever said anything about our D looking good on paper. They are mediocre on paper and mediocre on the field. We suffer as much from long sustained drives where we can't get off the field as we do from big plays.

And I don't expect you to get this, but if we were losing 34-31, 42-28, etc, you could say that the D is terrible and our O is doing enough to win games. Our D is often in shutdown mode late even when they've only given up 17-21 points, we are still down by 2 scores in the fourth qtr. It's a fact....look it up. The offensive output is unacceptable. The defense is middle of the road, and our turbo charged offense should be able to bail them out a couple of times. As it is....the O never gives the D any breathing room. The D does not "stink"...the O stinks, the D is average.

And you continue to have no idea what you see on Sunday.