Aaron Brooks

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-13-2003, 11:18 AM

B&B,

You have pointed out no flaws, my man!!! Let me count em\'. Oh there are none. Don\'t come half stepping. Show what ya know. My point was to everyone who was calling for Brook\'s head, I was merely showing what a few HOF QB\'s did in their first few years, so they would know they would have cut these guys back then, with their way of their way of thinking. Guess I can lump you in with that group? Get off the fence and say one way or the other.

WhoDat · 06-14-2003, 10:29 AM

B&B - 1, Billy - 0.

B&B, I must agree about the total waste of time it is to talk to some of these guys who love Brooks about his flaws. He is a decent quarterback, which is something that the Saints rarely have, but he is not great... I don\'t even know if he\'s good. It\'s hard to tell.

The important thing to me is this. If we took Aaron Brooks out of our lineup and replaced him with a QB like Trent Dilfer - who physically is not nearly as gifted, but who is a leader and knows how to manage the game and play mistake-free football, would our team be better, worse, or the same?

If you say better, then Brooks is not a very good QB. In fact, he\'s hurting the team with his play.

If you say worse, then you believe Brooks is truly a marquee player for us... and I would argue that you don\'t fully understand the type of offense our coaching staff claims to be running... or should be running.

If you say the same, then he is average at best, b/c it\'s not like Dilfer is a hall of famer.

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-14-2003, 04:57 PM

WhoDat,

You keep talking about Aaron Brook not being a leader and comparing him to QB\'s like Trent Dilfer. Let\'s talk about Dilfer. He was put in a system and asked not to lose the game. When they did pass, they kept the passes short, for the most part. They told him if there was any doubt, throw the ball away. Their plan was to rely on the defense. Trent Dilfer showed he could follow directions, I\'ll give you that, but you take away that defense and put the game in the QB\'s hands(which happens a lot) and he wouldn\'t win many games for you. Now lets move on to your favorite subject, Brooks not fitting in our system. Our system is to throw the ball all over the field and score a lot of points. I ask you who is suited better to do this, Dilfer or Brooks. Our QB is asked to buy time with his feet until the receivers get open, not to throw the ball away. Dilfer was terrible when Tampa put the burden on him to win. He sucked. So, when you say Brooks doesn\'t fit our system, it makes me wonder what kind of system you think McCarthy is trying to run. Could you please anwser that for me. I think your problem is you want McCarty to put Aaron Brooks in an offense like Dilfer had, not with Brooks. Your comparing apples to oranges.

If following directions make a leader then Dilfers a daisy.

[Edited on 14/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

WhoDat · 06-15-2003, 08:06 PM

I\'m sorry... our offensive strategy is to ask our QB to \"buy time with his feet until the receivers get open\"??? Are you serious? I hope that was a joke.

You see Billy, if you believe what McCarthy says, then the Saints run a west coast style offense. The west coast offense is fundamentally different than other previous systems b/c it augments the running game with SHORT QUICK PASSES to its receivers, and then let\'s the receivers make a play with their feet.

You\'re right Dilfer would not have been all that successful in Baltimore without that defense. But he also didn\'t have his conference\'s leading rusher or one of the five best receiving corps in football behind him... so you want to talk apples to apples... practice what you preach.

Again, I\'ll make this easy. What other team do you feel the Saints offense is most similar to? The Rams? Oakland, New England, Pittsburgh.... who? What kind of quarterbacks do those teams have? Gannon, Warner, Brady, Maddox... oh yeah, those guys totally \"buy time with their feet\" and then make plays with their own athleticism right? Nice try Billy... you got anything else?

WhoDat · 06-15-2003, 08:09 PM

And one other thing... when was the last time a QB who was more athlete than manager was in the Super Bowl?? Minnesota, Pittsburgh (with Kordell), and Philly have been most successful in recent years and none of them could get past their Conference Title game.

On the other hand - Rams, twice in four years, Oakland - last year, New England - two years ago...

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-15-2003, 08:32 PM

WhoDat,

You are trippin\' on hard durgs. Foget about what the system is called. They have an offense that is nothing like any of the offenses that you keep refering to. They ask Brooks to use all of his skills to make plays, (YES THIS INCLUDES USING HIS FEET TO BUY TIME.) This is a west coast offense by name only. Come on, where are all of those short passes your talking about. They spread the field out 4-wide and throw the ball all over the place. They ask Brooks to make plays not throw the ball away, becaue they know he can scramble. This is where you are confused: You are under the impression that we run a ball control offense and Brooks is simply asked not to make mistakes. YOUR WRONG WRONG WRONG.

To anwser your last question, let me clear up one thing. Your definiton of a manager seems to be someone who can\'t run. Does the name Steve Young or Elway ring a bell? I know your going to come back and say they were also managers of the game. For the last time what mistakes does Brooks make that they didn\'t?

[Edited on 16/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

WhoDat · 06-15-2003, 08:51 PM

Wrong reads, back peddling, throwing into traffic, forcing the ball into Horn all of the time... did those guys make the same kind of mistakes? Absolutely, just not with the same frequency that Brooks makes, which is why they were good managers and Brooks isn\'t.... or part of the reason.

OK, I said our O looks like the Rams, Raiders, Patties, and/or Steelers... you say it\'s \"nothing like any of the offenses that I keep refering to.\" So you tell me, which team is our offense most like? Obviously not those... so who?

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-15-2003, 09:01 PM

If I had to say, I would say the Rams. Is Kurt Warner a good manager of the game? He made way more mistake than Brooks last year and he won a superbowl. And yes they made them with more frequency. I can prove it if you like.

TonyMax · 06-16-2003, 04:53 PM

His INT\'s decreased and his TD passes increased.

I\'ll give you that if you give me that his completion percentage has been steadily on the decline since he started his first game, which had him ranked 26th among NFL QB\'s last year, right inbetween Vick and Plummer. And don\'t mention one word about Vick, it was his first year as a starter. This is his year to prove his worth. I\'ll sit back and watch, as I\'ve been a tweener on the subject since the end of the last season. but if he doesn\'t get that completion percentage up into the 62% range (from his dreadful 53% from last year), he\'ll have a helluva time convincing many folks around here.

I can\'t give you that one because I can recall when the receivers were dropping balls like crazy. Stallworth in the Carolina game (the 1st one), Jake Reed in the Caronlina game (the 2nd game) and Sloan versus Detroit.

WhoDat · 06-17-2003, 08:57 AM

Yes, Kurt Warner is a MUCH better manager than Brooks... I cannot argue that he had a bad year last year... the entire Rams team did... but if you would like to compare Warner\'s stats or defining characteristics to Aaron Brooks, I\'d be happy to. You\'re only proving yourself wrong Billy. Warner has been dubbed smart, accurate, the kind of guy that can stand up, get the ball out fast, and pick you apart all day given 3 seconds to throw. Are you going to tell me that sounds like Aaron Brooks? If so then please send over whatever you\'ve been smoking in your next post, b/c I definitely need some of that...

06-13-2003, 11:18 AM	#61
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Aaron Brooks B&B, You have pointed out no flaws, my man!!! Let me count em\'. Oh there are none. Don\'t come half stepping. Show what ya know. My point was to everyone who was calling for Brook\'s head, I was merely showing what a few HOF QB\'s did in their first few years, so they would know they would have cut these guys back then, with their way of their way of thinking. Guess I can lump you in with that group? Get off the fence and say one way or the other.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-14-2003, 10:29 AM	#62
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks B&B - 1, Billy - 0. B&B, I must agree about the total waste of time it is to talk to some of these guys who love Brooks about his flaws. He is a decent quarterback, which is something that the Saints rarely have, but he is not great... I don\'t even know if he\'s good. It\'s hard to tell. The important thing to me is this. If we took Aaron Brooks out of our lineup and replaced him with a QB like Trent Dilfer - who physically is not nearly as gifted, but who is a leader and knows how to manage the game and play mistake-free football, would our team be better, worse, or the same? If you say better, then Brooks is not a very good QB. In fact, he\'s hurting the team with his play. If you say worse, then you believe Brooks is truly a marquee player for us... and I would argue that you don\'t fully understand the type of offense our coaching staff claims to be running... or should be running. If you say the same, then he is average at best, b/c it\'s not like Dilfer is a hall of famer.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-14-2003, 04:57 PM	#63
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Aaron Brooks WhoDat, You keep talking about Aaron Brook not being a leader and comparing him to QB\'s like Trent Dilfer. Let\'s talk about Dilfer. He was put in a system and asked not to lose the game. When they did pass, they kept the passes short, for the most part. They told him if there was any doubt, throw the ball away. Their plan was to rely on the defense. Trent Dilfer showed he could follow directions, I\'ll give you that, but you take away that defense and put the game in the QB\'s hands(which happens a lot) and he wouldn\'t win many games for you. Now lets move on to your favorite subject, Brooks not fitting in our system. Our system is to throw the ball all over the field and score a lot of points. I ask you who is suited better to do this, Dilfer or Brooks. Our QB is asked to buy time with his feet until the receivers get open, not to throw the ball away. Dilfer was terrible when Tampa put the burden on him to win. He sucked. So, when you say Brooks doesn\'t fit our system, it makes me wonder what kind of system you think McCarthy is trying to run. Could you please anwser that for me. I think your problem is you want McCarty to put Aaron Brooks in an offense like Dilfer had, not with Brooks. Your comparing apples to oranges. If following directions make a leader then Dilfers a daisy. [Edited on 14/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-15-2003, 08:06 PM	#64
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks I\'m sorry... our offensive strategy is to ask our QB to \"buy time with his feet until the receivers get open\"??? Are you serious? I hope that was a joke. You see Billy, if you believe what McCarthy says, then the Saints run a west coast style offense. The west coast offense is fundamentally different than other previous systems b/c it augments the running game with SHORT QUICK PASSES to its receivers, and then let\'s the receivers make a play with their feet. You\'re right Dilfer would not have been all that successful in Baltimore without that defense. But he also didn\'t have his conference\'s leading rusher or one of the five best receiving corps in football behind him... so you want to talk apples to apples... practice what you preach. Again, I\'ll make this easy. What other team do you feel the Saints offense is most similar to? The Rams? Oakland, New England, Pittsburgh.... who? What kind of quarterbacks do those teams have? Gannon, Warner, Brady, Maddox... oh yeah, those guys totally \"buy time with their feet\" and then make plays with their own athleticism right? Nice try Billy... you got anything else?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-15-2003, 08:09 PM	#65
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks And one other thing... when was the last time a QB who was more athlete than manager was in the Super Bowl?? Minnesota, Pittsburgh (with Kordell), and Philly have been most successful in recent years and none of them could get past their Conference Title game. On the other hand - Rams, twice in four years, Oakland - last year, New England - two years ago...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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06-15-2003, 08:32 PM	#66
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Aaron Brooks WhoDat, You are trippin\' on hard durgs. Foget about what the system is called. They have an offense that is nothing like any of the offenses that you keep refering to. They ask Brooks to use all of his skills to make plays, (YES THIS INCLUDES USING HIS FEET TO BUY TIME.) This is a west coast offense by name only. Come on, where are all of those short passes your talking about. They spread the field out 4-wide and throw the ball all over the place. They ask Brooks to make plays not throw the ball away, becaue they know he can scramble. This is where you are confused: You are under the impression that we run a ball control offense and Brooks is simply asked not to make mistakes. YOUR WRONG WRONG WRONG. To anwser your last question, let me clear up one thing. Your definiton of a manager seems to be someone who can\'t run. Does the name Steve Young or Elway ring a bell? I know your going to come back and say they were also managers of the game. For the last time what mistakes does Brooks make that they didn\'t? [Edited on 16/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-15-2003, 08:51 PM	#67
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks Wrong reads, back peddling, throwing into traffic, forcing the ball into Horn all of the time... did those guys make the same kind of mistakes? Absolutely, just not with the same frequency that Brooks makes, which is why they were good managers and Brooks isn\'t.... or part of the reason. OK, I said our O looks like the Rams, Raiders, Patties, and/or Steelers... you say it\'s \"nothing like any of the offenses that I keep refering to.\" So you tell me, which team is our offense most like? Obviously not those... so who?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-15-2003, 09:01 PM	#68
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Aaron Brooks If I had to say, I would say the Rams. Is Kurt Warner a good manager of the game? He made way more mistake than Brooks last year and he won a superbowl. And yes they made them with more frequency. I can prove it if you like.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-16-2003, 04:53 PM	#69
TonyMax Rookie Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 14	Aaron Brooks His INT\'s decreased and his TD passes increased. I\'ll give you that if you give me that his completion percentage has been steadily on the decline since he started his first game, which had him ranked 26th among NFL QB\'s last year, right inbetween Vick and Plummer. And don\'t mention one word about Vick, it was his first year as a starter. This is his year to prove his worth. I\'ll sit back and watch, as I\'ve been a tweener on the subject since the end of the last season. but if he doesn\'t get that completion percentage up into the 62% range (from his dreadful 53% from last year), he\'ll have a helluva time convincing many folks around here. I can\'t give you that one because I can recall when the receivers were dropping balls like crazy. Stallworth in the Carolina game (the 1st one), Jake Reed in the Caronlina game (the 2nd game) and Sloan versus Detroit.
TonyMax Rookie Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 14

06-17-2003, 08:57 AM	#70
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks Yes, Kurt Warner is a MUCH better manager than Brooks... I cannot argue that he had a bad year last year... the entire Rams team did... but if you would like to compare Warner\'s stats or defining characteristics to Aaron Brooks, I\'d be happy to. You\'re only proving yourself wrong Billy. Warner has been dubbed smart, accurate, the kind of guy that can stand up, get the ball out fast, and pick you apart all day given 3 seconds to throw. Are you going to tell me that sounds like Aaron Brooks? If so then please send over whatever you\'ve been smoking in your next post, b/c I definitely need some of that...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"