Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN!

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-13-2003, 03:30 PM

FWtex,

There\'s only one hole in your argument. Do you actually think that those leadership qualities were showing themselves in Bradshaws first 3 years? You would have cut him because he wasn\'t showing those leadership skills that you keep talking about. You kill me man!!!

Gatorman,

I thougt I was wrong one time, but I was mistaken.

[Edited on 13/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

lumm0x · 06-13-2003, 03:56 PM

In defense of Billy\'s arguement, Terry Bradshaw has openly admitted many times that at the start of his career he wasn\'t focused, he ostracized himself from the fans and he pissed off management. He definitely didn\'t show the qualities you speak of in the first three years.
But in defense of FWtex, he was benched many times and they didn\'t give up on his talent level. They made him realize that he\'s no marquee player until he gets his sh!t together and takes that next step from a talented player to a leader that utilizes his talent to win games.

Brooks can\'t be dropped yet. Three years is a more than acceptable time to groom for his prime. He does need to know that the job is his to lose, not simply his.

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-13-2003, 04:08 PM

lummOx,

Thanks for the comment on Bradshaw, as it is completly true, and so is the part about him being benched. Everyone keeps bringing up that they don\'t beleive that Brooks has the leadership qualities that a quarterback should have is rediculious at this point in Brooks carear. Young players make mistakes in the media and on the field, this is not uncommon, but given time they grow out of it and improve. Just like Bradshaw did. All the things that the Brook bashing crew are saying about him was said about a lot of the great QB\'s early on. Is Brooks the man? I don\'t know, but I know enough about football to not make comments like they are making. They are entitled to their opinion, even though they know not what they are talking about.

rusta · 06-13-2003, 04:13 PM

we have had this arguement over and over and i don\'t understand what is wrong with you guys

you are all mad because AB didn\'t take us to the playoffs last year right?

what more do you guys want him to do? our offense scored 20+ points in every game but the last one and AB was hurt then, the reason we didn\'t go to the playoffs was our sorry ass defense, AB and the offense did all they could, hell he led the comeback victories over chicago and SF, both games we were down by 20 points if i remember correctly, in fact i remember reading an article that said haz asked AB at halftime in the chicago game when we were down by 20 if he was worried and AB smiled and said \"no, we are going to win this game\"

AB does smile and seem to be nonchalant about things which bothers me but c\'mon he\'s not the one who let us down last year, it was the defense that let minnesota come back from no where, the defense that lost to cincy, our offense did all they could

i can\'t think of one game that AB lost for us last year, so slam him all you want but you are blaming the wrong guy

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-13-2003, 04:18 PM

Rusta,

You can\'t tell those guys anything. They have blinders on and can\'t see a damn thing. But I\'m glad to see that you see the samething I did.

ScottyRo · 06-13-2003, 04:57 PM

Rusta, I agree with your comments about Brooks, but I feel differently about his actions post-interception.

I know how I react when I do something stupid - especially when I do something stupid in a group - I laugh at myself and say something like, \"What an idiot I am!\" When Brooks smiles after an interception, that is what I see. You know to think of it, we could be stuck with someone who has the opposite problem: a QB who cannot forget his mistakes enough to move on when the next drive begins. There are plenty of those out there. Would any of us prefer that?

Also, if Brooks changed his actions and \"acted\" mad because he threw an INT, what would that change except the way you or I feel about it? It is his nature to make a mistake and chuckle to himself about it - likely in the same manner to which I referred above. The only people who might question him about why he acts that way should be his teammates and his coaches. It should be those individuals who have the responsiblity to ask why he acts the way he does so he can explain himself and they can understand each other.

Lastly, what other Qb has been available during the 2002 and 2003 offseasons that any of you would rather have? (You can\'t say Delhomme until 2004 since he hasn\'t started yet)

WhoDat · 06-14-2003, 09:51 AM

While it\'s no secret that I am not particularly happy with Aaron Brooks, I don\'t doubt his talent... however, my major argument against him is that he DOES NOT FIT OUR SYSTEM.

The coaching staff will tell you we run the \"west coast\" offense... I don\'t think we\'re entirely west coast. Actually, a lot of times it is hard to tell what the hell we\'re running. IMHO, we should be running a \"west coast spread\" similar to what the Rams, Steelers, Patties, Raiders... Jets (sort of)... run. Our offense should consist of a three equal parts - Deuce, short quick hitters to all of our weapons (WRs, RB/FB, TEs), and then deeper routes down the field to our stud WRs to stretch the field. Does anyone disagree with that?

I will assume you don\'t. I will assume that you agree that we should use our superior athleticism like the other teams that have this kind of talent who are successful with it (see the list above). So, if our passing game is going to consist of A - quick hitters to the \"hot read\", B - timing patterns, and C - deep seam routes... what kind of quarterback is best?

A - A very physically gifted one who can make plays on his own, but who lacks leadership skills, game \"smarts\" and the ability to learn... OR

B - A smart quarterback who manages the game and gets the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible and into the hands of his many weapons as quickly and safely as possible?

To me, the answer is simple. Want proof? Look at how well Pittsburgh played when they replaced Cordell with Maddox... Take a look at those other teams I talked about that have offenses like ours... their QBs are Gannon, Warner, Maddox, Brady, and Pennington... oh yeah, those guys are all just like Brooks right? Further, the teams that have mobile athletic QBs that are successful (Atlanta, Philly, Tennessee...) don\'t have any other weapons! Take a look at the offenses for those three teams. Outside of the QB, I think you\'ll find one guy who has ever been to the Pro Bowl at a skill position.

The bottom line is very easy to understand. It doesn\'t matter if Brooks is a hall of famer or not. He is wrong for our system, and that hurts the team. We should be building our team around Deuce, Stallworth, Bentley, and our many other weapons (Horn, Pathon, Conwell, Sloan, Beer-man and the other 75 receivers we have, our young OL)... not around Aaron Brooks.

BillyCarpenter1 · 06-14-2003, 09:57 AM

WhoDat,

I\'ll give in. Brooks sucks. Brooks had nothing to do with all those points we put up last year. He\'s the biggest problem our team had. All of the games we lost last year we\'re totally his fault. He was the reason our defense stunk it up last year too, all that smiling he did distracted the defiense, they knew he didn\'t really care. Thanks for showing me the wisdom.

Cassady37 · 06-14-2003, 10:14 AM

Not to mention it was Brooks fault the coaching staff, once taken out of their game plan, didn\'t have a clue 90% of the time on how to adjust. It was also Brooks fault for not making the defensive changes we so desperately needed to keep teams from coming from behind by 20 points. It was Brooks fault that the starting game plans stunk most of the time. It was Brooks fault for not BEGGING and CRYING and PLEADING with Haslett to pull him out of the starting line-up when his shoulder was hurting so bad and it effected him so much everyone in the free world could see it but the head coach. See where I\'m going with this?

WhoDat · 06-14-2003, 10:18 AM

Billy - well now I might have to bust your balls a little bit...

Do me a favor, when you can\'t respond to a post, just say \"I concede\"... or even, \"you make good points but I still disagree.\" There\'s nothing wrong with believing that Brooks will be the future of this organization... that he will get his sh!t together... that he will be a hall of famer... I don\'t believe that, but if you do, stand up and say that.

B/c bottom line, that last post screams - I CANNOT MAKE A GOOD ARGUMENT AGAINST WHAT YOU JUST SAID...

See, we\'re not talking about the problems this team had or has... we\'re talking about Brooks and how he fits into our system and our team as the Quarterback. Nothing else. So argue that or give in...

06-13-2003, 03:30 PM	#21
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! FWtex, There\'s only one hole in your argument. Do you actually think that those leadership qualities were showing themselves in Bradshaws first 3 years? You would have cut him because he wasn\'t showing those leadership skills that you keep talking about. You kill me man!!! Gatorman, I thougt I was wrong one time, but I was mistaken. [Edited on 13/6/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-13-2003, 03:56 PM	#22
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! In defense of Billy\'s arguement, Terry Bradshaw has openly admitted many times that at the start of his career he wasn\'t focused, he ostracized himself from the fans and he pissed off management. He definitely didn\'t show the qualities you speak of in the first three years. But in defense of FWtex, he was benched many times and they didn\'t give up on his talent level. They made him realize that he\'s no marquee player until he gets his sh!t together and takes that next step from a talented player to a leader that utilizes his talent to win games. Brooks can\'t be dropped yet. Three years is a more than acceptable time to groom for his prime. He does need to know that the job is his to lose, not simply his.

06-13-2003, 04:08 PM	#23
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! lummOx, Thanks for the comment on Bradshaw, as it is completly true, and so is the part about him being benched. Everyone keeps bringing up that they don\'t beleive that Brooks has the leadership qualities that a quarterback should have is rediculious at this point in Brooks carear. Young players make mistakes in the media and on the field, this is not uncommon, but given time they grow out of it and improve. Just like Bradshaw did. All the things that the Brook bashing crew are saying about him was said about a lot of the great QB\'s early on. Is Brooks the man? I don\'t know, but I know enough about football to not make comments like they are making. They are entitled to their opinion, even though they know not what they are talking about.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-13-2003, 04:13 PM	#24
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! we have had this arguement over and over and i don\'t understand what is wrong with you guys you are all mad because AB didn\'t take us to the playoffs last year right? what more do you guys want him to do? our offense scored 20+ points in every game but the last one and AB was hurt then, the reason we didn\'t go to the playoffs was our sorry ass defense, AB and the offense did all they could, hell he led the comeback victories over chicago and SF, both games we were down by 20 points if i remember correctly, in fact i remember reading an article that said haz asked AB at halftime in the chicago game when we were down by 20 if he was worried and AB smiled and said \"no, we are going to win this game\" AB does smile and seem to be nonchalant about things which bothers me but c\'mon he\'s not the one who let us down last year, it was the defense that let minnesota come back from no where, the defense that lost to cincy, our offense did all they could i can\'t think of one game that AB lost for us last year, so slam him all you want but you are blaming the wrong guy
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361

06-13-2003, 04:18 PM	#25
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! Rusta, You can\'t tell those guys anything. They have blinders on and can\'t see a damn thing. But I\'m glad to see that you see the samething I did.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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06-13-2003, 04:57 PM	#26
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! Rusta, I agree with your comments about Brooks, but I feel differently about his actions post-interception. I know how I react when I do something stupid - especially when I do something stupid in a group - I laugh at myself and say something like, \"What an idiot I am!\" When Brooks smiles after an interception, that is what I see. You know to think of it, we could be stuck with someone who has the opposite problem: a QB who cannot forget his mistakes enough to move on when the next drive begins. There are plenty of those out there. Would any of us prefer that? Also, if Brooks changed his actions and \"acted\" mad because he threw an INT, what would that change except the way you or I feel about it? It is his nature to make a mistake and chuckle to himself about it - likely in the same manner to which I referred above. The only people who might question him about why he acts that way should be his teammates and his coaches. It should be those individuals who have the responsiblity to ask why he acts the way he does so he can explain himself and they can understand each other. Lastly, what other Qb has been available during the 2002 and 2003 offseasons that any of you would rather have? (You can\'t say Delhomme until 2004 since he hasn\'t started yet)

06-14-2003, 09:51 AM	#27
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! While it\'s no secret that I am not particularly happy with Aaron Brooks, I don\'t doubt his talent... however, my major argument against him is that he DOES NOT FIT OUR SYSTEM. The coaching staff will tell you we run the \"west coast\" offense... I don\'t think we\'re entirely west coast. Actually, a lot of times it is hard to tell what the hell we\'re running. IMHO, we should be running a \"west coast spread\" similar to what the Rams, Steelers, Patties, Raiders... Jets (sort of)... run. Our offense should consist of a three equal parts - Deuce, short quick hitters to all of our weapons (WRs, RB/FB, TEs), and then deeper routes down the field to our stud WRs to stretch the field. Does anyone disagree with that? I will assume you don\'t. I will assume that you agree that we should use our superior athleticism like the other teams that have this kind of talent who are successful with it (see the list above). So, if our passing game is going to consist of A - quick hitters to the \"hot read\", B - timing patterns, and C - deep seam routes... what kind of quarterback is best? A - A very physically gifted one who can make plays on his own, but who lacks leadership skills, game \"smarts\" and the ability to learn... OR B - A smart quarterback who manages the game and gets the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible and into the hands of his many weapons as quickly and safely as possible? To me, the answer is simple. Want proof? Look at how well Pittsburgh played when they replaced Cordell with Maddox... Take a look at those other teams I talked about that have offenses like ours... their QBs are Gannon, Warner, Maddox, Brady, and Pennington... oh yeah, those guys are all just like Brooks right? Further, the teams that have mobile athletic QBs that are successful (Atlanta, Philly, Tennessee...) don\'t have any other weapons! Take a look at the offenses for those three teams. Outside of the QB, I think you\'ll find one guy who has ever been to the Pro Bowl at a skill position. The bottom line is very easy to understand. It doesn\'t matter if Brooks is a hall of famer or not. He is wrong for our system, and that hurts the team. We should be building our team around Deuce, Stallworth, Bentley, and our many other weapons (Horn, Pathon, Conwell, Sloan, Beer-man and the other 75 receivers we have, our young OL)... not around Aaron Brooks.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

06-14-2003, 09:57 AM	#28
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! WhoDat, I\'ll give in. Brooks sucks. Brooks had nothing to do with all those points we put up last year. He\'s the biggest problem our team had. All of the games we lost last year we\'re totally his fault. He was the reason our defense stunk it up last year too, all that smiling he did distracted the defiense, they knew he didn\'t really care. Thanks for showing me the wisdom.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

06-14-2003, 10:14 AM	#29
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! Not to mention it was Brooks fault the coaching staff, once taken out of their game plan, didn\'t have a clue 90% of the time on how to adjust. It was also Brooks fault for not making the defensive changes we so desperately needed to keep teams from coming from behind by 20 points. It was Brooks fault that the starting game plans stunk most of the time. It was Brooks fault for not BEGGING and CRYING and PLEADING with Haslett to pull him out of the starting line-up when his shoulder was hurting so bad and it effected him so much everyone in the free world could see it but the head coach. See where I\'m going with this?

06-14-2003, 10:18 AM	#30
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks has same poor attitude AGAIN! Billy - well now I might have to bust your balls a little bit... Do me a favor, when you can\'t respond to a post, just say \"I concede\"... or even, \"you make good points but I still disagree.\" There\'s nothing wrong with believing that Brooks will be the future of this organization... that he will get his sh!t together... that he will be a hall of famer... I don\'t believe that, but if you do, stand up and say that. B/c bottom line, that last post screams - I CANNOT MAKE A GOOD ARGUMENT AGAINST WHAT YOU JUST SAID... See, we\'re not talking about the problems this team had or has... we\'re talking about Brooks and how he fits into our system and our team as the Quarterback. Nothing else. So argue that or give in...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"