Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?

exiled · 08-24-2007, 08:31 PM

[QUOTE=JOESAM2002;136799] Anyway, i'm not meaning to jump your case, I just wanted to set the recoed straight on the horse racing thing.

I don't feel like my case has been jumped. Or that the record is straight. But thanks for your comments.

Originally Posted by JOESAM2002

We all started years ago on small Louisiana dirt tracks. You might try it sometime. You might change your mind

No, I think all animal sports are gross. But thanks for the offer.

I am sorry that
One: I failed to make my point about class (not race)
and two: I failed to mention that I am a forgiving sort of guy and that even though I dispise Lieing, gambling and dog fighting I would forgive Vick, give him his old job back.

But if I were a betting man he'll never play again.
not because anyone has a particular vendetta against blood sport - but because of public perseption.

none the less - thanks for your time
and ummm... go game cocks.

ScottF · 08-24-2007, 08:40 PM

This thread started with does Vick deserve a shot at redemption...

Once he does his time, the NFL will need to decide how to punish 2 actions: the crime itself, and the fact he lied to Goddell's face about it, embarrassing the league further.

Everyone deserves a second chance after they have served their punishment.
Obviously, Vick will not see the field this year. I think he'll get a 16 game suspension following his jail term. I say add a $2 million fine. The NFL donates fines to charity, so someone calls the Humane Society with the good news.

Now it is 2009, Vick has just turned 29. If he can still play at an NFL-level, good for him. If not, he can write a book, or get a reality series.

He will go down as the BIGGEST waste of talent ever- not Ricky, Dupree, Jason Williams, David Clyde, anyone

fhotard · 08-24-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by cadilacin

But I don't think it's worst than men who hunt deer. Men who hide in the woods, and shoot deer while they're drinking from a pond...now they as well "should be punished". Thats sick to me too. But thats legal...(I wonder why). It amazes me how we like to try and make one thing seem so much more worse than a simular thing, when they are equally as inhumane.

I don't think Mike ate the dogs after he killed them... hunters typically eat what they kill.

Unless you're a vegetarian (ancient indian word for "bad hunter") what's wrong with hunting?

You go to the store and buy a piece of a cow, pig, or chicken that was farm raised, then killed in a way that was no more, or less, humane than how a deer is killed in the field.

Having animals fight to the death for entertainment indicates a sociopathic mentality.

edit: oops, forgot to answer the original question...
Yes, after he serves his punishment, whatever the courts decide, he should be allowed to play again. If any team will have him.

BlackandBlue · 08-24-2007, 09:16 PM

If you are convicted of a crime, you're considered by the government to be "reformed" once you've completed your sentence. Webster's defines "reformed" as being "amended by removal of faults, abuses... improved in conduct, morals." However, upon release, options for employment are limited and sparse, and in most cases, need to be setup prior to release. We've all seen the section of the job application that refers to criminal records. Yet, I've never heard any organization trumpeting the cause of these ex-cons....
The way our government works, should Vick be redeemed once he's, "served his debt to society?" Yes, he should...
The way our society works.... no, he won't.

blacksaint · 08-24-2007, 09:34 PM

I think a lot of you guys posting on this particular thread don't know the severity of the situation. Dog fighting is not isolated to the poor black communities, it's happening in almost every State in this country and a lot of countries all over the world. I found a few stories around the Internet to give some of you guys some type of insight on the popularity and interest of the world of dog fighting.

U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait"
U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait"

The reality of dog fighting
Pet Pitbull - Sad Reality article

Humane Society Seizes Nearly Two Dozen Dogs
Unchain Your Dog.org News | Dogs Seized in Montgomery, Alabama Dogfighting Ring

300 Pit Bulls Seized after Fatal Shooting in Liberty County
Unchain Your Dog.org | 300 Pit Bulls Seized in Eleveland Texas; Dogs Chained and Penned

Pit Bull Settles Calmly into New Digs
Unchain Your Dog.org | Wisconsin Man Suspected of Dog Fighting

New Evidence Found In Apparent Dog Fighting Ring
Firefighter Believed To Be Responsible For Gruesome Crime
Unchain Your Dog.org | Indiana Firefighter Accused Dogfighting/ Fighting Pit Bulls

Owner Cruel to the Bone
Unchain Your Dog.org News | Long Island Man Charged with Dog Fighting, Animal Cruelty

Two Men Booked with Dogfighting
UnchainYourDog.org | New Orleans Men Charged with Animal Cruelty, Neglect and Pit Bull Fighting

17 Pit Bulls Seized in Raid; Homeowner Sought
UnchainYourDog.org | Man Wanted on Animal Cruelty Charges

Officials Find 50-75 Pit Bulls
Unchain Your Dog.org | Ohio Officials Find 50-75 Chained Neglected Pit Bulls

SPCA Rescues 30 Abused Dogs
Unchain Your Dog.org News | 30 Pit Bulls Siezed in Texas Dog Fighting Investigation

This is just a few articles from around the net just to show how deep this form of animal cruelty runs. I could have went on and on and on, but I think you guys can kind of get it, it's not right but it's as common as horse racing where all types of people are involved in it from all walks of life. Some of you guys say it not a racial thing and to a point it's not, but the media focus seems to gravitate to that general area, calling it a subcultural activity and focusing majority of their coverage on black athletes and poor black communities. These dog fighting activities occur in a lot of different communities, mainly but not exclusively in poor and rural areas. What we as a public, the media and all concerned have to realize is it's really not a racial or economical thing, but a cruelty thing. It's very funny to me that all these people are so appalled by what Vick is accused of but won't do anything thing about it but talk. I say if you're that disturb over all this than do something about it, because once the next big thing happen to capture your attention, the media will forget all about it and so will you, that's the real shame of it all, right now it's the big story and soon it will not be. And the dogs will still be fighting and dying and the people still betting, and the media is just going to move on and cover the next flavor of the month.

saintfan · 08-24-2007, 09:35 PM

Reformed? I call bullst. Redeemed? That's crap. It's take a sick mother &^*%er to do what he did to those animals, and 18 months in the clink isn't going to reform Vick's sorry tail. People that do things like that to animals are seriously twisted. Seriously.

He's 'redeemed' when he stands in a 10x10 cell WITH those dogs he trained to execute (one way or the other) with a t-bone wrapped around his worthless neck. If he can come out of that room in one hour and still manage to live, then I say let him play football again.

I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly defend that piece of crap...I simply cannot imagine it. Sick sick sick sick sick. Mean. Evil. Twisted. Warped. This is the kind of stuff child molesters and serial killers are made of. What in God's name are people thinking?

BlackandBlue · 08-24-2007, 09:50 PM

Never said I agree with what he did. The only thing that he could have done that would have tugged harder at my heartstrings would be if he armed children and had them square off against one another. But I'm pro-U.S.A. You can do whatever you want to Vick, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

NFLDiva · 08-24-2007, 09:54 PM

Ehh f**k it...Just shoot him.

JOESAM2002 · 08-24-2007, 10:01 PM

I'm not sure he can be reformed. It's not like he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong and against the law to start with. These kind of people have serious problems if you ask me. I really don't think you can compare this kind of behavior to any thing else. This is just plain sick. I don't care if you're black, white,yellow or what sick is sick. This obviously affects everyone involved with it. How can we as civilized people condone this? If we do......then how civilized are we. Maybe we need to look deep within ourselves. Anybody that condones this absolutely scares the devil out of me. I'm just glad you don't know where I live. I don't want to be found dead in my home just because someone dicided to play a game and go out and just kill someone. That's about as close to dog fighting as I can compare. Sick,just plain sick. Or maybe we could all get together and go out and do some drive by shootings? Sound about right? See how sick does this sound. Think about it. This is what's wrong with our country today. We let people get away with to much.

BlackandBlue · 08-24-2007, 10:08 PM

Don't mistake what I am saying, Joe. If he is guilty, I hope he is persecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If what I heard was correct, the state mandate is 5 years for every dog, which equates to 40+ years, in additional to the federal charges. Yes, do it, lock him up. But I can't sit here and say that the man cannot earn a living, whether it be 5 years from now, or 40.

08-24-2007, 08:31 PM	#21
exiled Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: on the road - now based in Austin, TX Posts: 483	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? [QUOTE=JOESAM2002;136799] Anyway, i'm not meaning to jump your case, I just wanted to set the recoed straight on the horse racing thing. I don't feel like my case has been jumped. Or that the record is straight. But thanks for your comments. Originally Posted by JOESAM2002 We all started years ago on small Louisiana dirt tracks. You might try it sometime. You might change your mind No, I think all animal sports are gross. But thanks for the offer. I am sorry that One: I failed to make my point about class (not race) and two: I failed to mention that I am a forgiving sort of guy and that even though I dispise Lieing, gambling and dog fighting I would forgive Vick, give him his old job back. But if I were a betting man he'll never play again. not because anyone has a particular vendetta against blood sport - but because of public perseption. none the less - thanks for your time and ummm... go game cocks.
	"it is from the lost, your culture has always been found." - chandler (9th ward new orleans #2)

08-24-2007, 08:40 PM	#22
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? This thread started with does Vick deserve a shot at redemption... Once he does his time, the NFL will need to decide how to punish 2 actions: the crime itself, and the fact he lied to Goddell's face about it, embarrassing the league further. Everyone deserves a second chance after they have served their punishment. Obviously, Vick will not see the field this year. I think he'll get a 16 game suspension following his jail term. I say add a $2 million fine. The NFL donates fines to charity, so someone calls the Humane Society with the good news. Now it is 2009, Vick has just turned 29. If he can still play at an NFL-level, good for him. If not, he can write a book, or get a reality series. He will go down as the BIGGEST waste of talent ever- not Ricky, Dupree, Jason Williams, David Clyde, anyone

08-24-2007, 09:06 PM	#23
fhotard 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 263	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by cadilacin But I don't think it's worst than men who hunt deer. Men who hide in the woods, and shoot deer while they're drinking from a pond...now they as well "should be punished". Thats sick to me too. But thats legal...(I wonder why). It amazes me how we like to try and make one thing seem so much more worse than a simular thing, when they are equally as inhumane. I don't think Mike ate the dogs after he killed them... hunters typically eat what they kill. Unless you're a vegetarian (ancient indian word for "bad hunter") what's wrong with hunting? You go to the store and buy a piece of a cow, pig, or chicken that was farm raised, then killed in a way that was no more, or less, humane than how a deer is killed in the field. Having animals fight to the death for entertainment indicates a sociopathic mentality. edit: oops, forgot to answer the original question... Yes, after he serves his punishment, whatever the courts decide, he should be allowed to play again. If any team will have him.
	Last edited by fhotard; 08-24-2007 at 09:10 PM..

08-24-2007, 09:16 PM	#24
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? If you are convicted of a crime, you're considered by the government to be "reformed" once you've completed your sentence. Webster's defines "reformed" as being "amended by removal of faults, abuses... improved in conduct, morals." However, upon release, options for employment are limited and sparse, and in most cases, need to be setup prior to release. We've all seen the section of the job application that refers to criminal records. Yet, I've never heard any organization trumpeting the cause of these ex-cons.... The way our government works, should Vick be redeemed once he's, "served his debt to society?" Yes, he should... The way our society works.... no, he won't.

08-24-2007, 09:34 PM	#25
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? I think a lot of you guys posting on this particular thread don't know the severity of the situation. Dog fighting is not isolated to the poor black communities, it's happening in almost every State in this country and a lot of countries all over the world. I found a few stories around the Internet to give some of you guys some type of insight on the popularity and interest of the world of dog fighting. U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait" U.S. Dog-Fighting Rings Stealing Pets for "Bait" The reality of dog fighting Pet Pitbull - Sad Reality article Humane Society Seizes Nearly Two Dozen Dogs Unchain Your Dog.org News \| Dogs Seized in Montgomery, Alabama Dogfighting Ring 300 Pit Bulls Seized after Fatal Shooting in Liberty County Unchain Your Dog.org \| 300 Pit Bulls Seized in Eleveland Texas; Dogs Chained and Penned Pit Bull Settles Calmly into New Digs Unchain Your Dog.org \| Wisconsin Man Suspected of Dog Fighting New Evidence Found In Apparent Dog Fighting Ring Firefighter Believed To Be Responsible For Gruesome Crime Unchain Your Dog.org \| Indiana Firefighter Accused Dogfighting/ Fighting Pit Bulls Owner Cruel to the Bone Unchain Your Dog.org News \| Long Island Man Charged with Dog Fighting, Animal Cruelty Two Men Booked with Dogfighting UnchainYourDog.org \| New Orleans Men Charged with Animal Cruelty, Neglect and Pit Bull Fighting 17 Pit Bulls Seized in Raid; Homeowner Sought UnchainYourDog.org \| Man Wanted on Animal Cruelty Charges Officials Find 50-75 Pit Bulls Unchain Your Dog.org \| Ohio Officials Find 50-75 Chained Neglected Pit Bulls SPCA Rescues 30 Abused Dogs Unchain Your Dog.org News \| 30 Pit Bulls Siezed in Texas Dog Fighting Investigation This is just a few articles from around the net just to show how deep this form of animal cruelty runs. I could have went on and on and on, but I think you guys can kind of get it, it's not right but it's as common as horse racing where all types of people are involved in it from all walks of life. Some of you guys say it not a racial thing and to a point it's not, but the media focus seems to gravitate to that general area, calling it a subcultural activity and focusing majority of their coverage on black athletes and poor black communities. These dog fighting activities occur in a lot of different communities, mainly but not exclusively in poor and rural areas. What we as a public, the media and all concerned have to realize is it's really not a racial or economical thing, but a cruelty thing. It's very funny to me that all these people are so appalled by what Vick is accused of but won't do anything thing about it but talk. I say if you're that disturb over all this than do something about it, because once the next big thing happen to capture your attention, the media will forget all about it and so will you, that's the real shame of it all, right now it's the big story and soon it will not be. And the dogs will still be fighting and dying and the people still betting, and the media is just going to move on and cover the next flavor of the month.
	saint4life (504) Last edited by blacksaint; 08-24-2007 at 09:42 PM..

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08-24-2007, 09:35 PM	#26
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Reformed? I call bullst. Redeemed? That's crap. It's take a sick mother &^*%er to do what he did to those animals, and 18 months in the clink isn't going to reform Vick's sorry tail. People that do things like that to animals are seriously twisted. Seriously. He's 'redeemed' when he stands in a 10x10 cell WITH those dogs he trained to execute (one way or the other) with a t-bone wrapped around his worthless neck. If he can come out of that room in one hour and still manage to live, then I say let him play football again. I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly defend that piece of crap...I simply cannot imagine it. Sick sick sick sick sick. Mean. Evil. Twisted. Warped. This is the kind of stuff child molesters and serial killers are made of. What in God's name are people thinking?
	Last edited by JOESAM2002; 08-24-2007 at 09:50 PM..

08-24-2007, 09:50 PM	#27
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Never said I agree with what he did. The only thing that he could have done that would have tugged harder at my heartstrings would be if he armed children and had them square off against one another. But I'm pro-U.S.A. You can do whatever you want to Vick, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

08-24-2007, 09:54 PM	#28
NFLDiva Smart Mouth Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 383	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Ehh f**k it...Just shoot him.
NFLDiva Smart Mouth Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 383

08-24-2007, 10:01 PM	#29
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? I'm not sure he can be reformed. It's not like he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong and against the law to start with. These kind of people have serious problems if you ask me. I really don't think you can compare this kind of behavior to any thing else. This is just plain sick. I don't care if you're black, white,yellow or what sick is sick. This obviously affects everyone involved with it. How can we as civilized people condone this? If we do......then how civilized are we. Maybe we need to look deep within ourselves. Anybody that condones this absolutely scares the devil out of me. I'm just glad you don't know where I live. I don't want to be found dead in my home just because someone dicided to play a game and go out and just kill someone. That's about as close to dog fighting as I can compare. Sick,just plain sick. Or maybe we could all get together and go out and do some drive by shootings? Sound about right? See how sick does this sound. Think about it. This is what's wrong with our country today. We let people get away with to much.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

08-24-2007, 10:08 PM	#30
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Don't mistake what I am saying, Joe. If he is guilty, I hope he is persecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If what I heard was correct, the state mandate is 5 years for every dog, which equates to 40+ years, in additional to the federal charges. Yes, do it, lock him up. But I can't sit here and say that the man cannot earn a living, whether it be 5 years from now, or 40.