Message To Coach Payton

Papa Voodoo · 09-13-2007, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Duce runs means Bush runs and vice a versa. end of story
KK is good at run support but like Bullocks he can be exploited in the passing game.

And what was the KK to Bullocks pick ratio last year? Bullocks sucks. He's almost always out of position and rarely makes any kind of play. Harper and Bellamy is better than Harper and Bullocks. I say put in KK and let Bellamy play the red zone. Bellamy and Simmons in the red zone will produce for sure.

WhoDat205 · 09-13-2007, 08:31 AM

First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar.

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan

IMO Deuce will be traded next season, it's not something I'm looking forward to be I think he's a player that the Saints need to help win games but I agree, he's not be used enough, I hope to see him get more carries, I don't think Bush is a back that can carry a team alone so if Deuce is traded next year as I think he will the saints will have to get him some help back there..
My two cents worth..

I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS.

Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South.

It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded.

Cassady37 · 09-13-2007, 08:36 AM

I wholeheartedly agree with the assesement on Bullocks, he has left more than one cornerback out to dry! As I have said time and time again on this board, we need a new defensive coordinator, plain and simple. This one seems to have as bad of blinders on as did Haslett with Brooks. ( Oh no he didn't just go there! ) We cannot run man on d, we have sucked at it for years now and the d-coordinator just can't seem to let it go. His reasoning has made me question his intentions the whole time. His 'let's bring in zone players to play man coverage' has me baffled on so many levels. And as I have said before, if you continue to get beat down the field, at least start blitzing form every conceivable angle! You're getting beat anyway, why not try to get to the QB before he burns you? But staying with man, and leaving our LB's in a maybe we blitz from a vanilla scheme or maybe we leave them in run d to get the hell pounded out of them, ain't going to cut it any longer. And don't think Peyton didn't know he could burn Jason David anytime he wanted to, now he just showed the rest of the NFL how to do it. We better be making some adjustments on both sides of the ball this week or else that feeling of how Haslett started his descent his second year will creep back into the back of my mind.

Hisaint · 09-13-2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar.

I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS.

Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South.

It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded.

Great points. It's not often you think of a player taking his legacy into consideration, or for that matter anything besides the mighty dollar. But Deuce is no ordinary 'run of the mill' cat.

darstep · 09-13-2007, 02:45 PM

Even the thought of a Duece trade starts to fuel that upchuck feeling way down deep somewhere. It would be a big mistake. There is nothing that you could get for Duece that would come close to what he brings to our success week in and week out, on and off of the field. I love Reggie...he's exciting, explosive, intriguing, all of that; but he's not ready to carry our load. I've seen Bush get snatched with one hand while the lineman is fighting off a block with the other hand - not so with Duece. I've seen linebackers find excuses to lay on the ground to keep from having to take yet another pounding from Duece late in the 3rd and into the 4th. A Duece trade sounds like money talking - Benzo counting nickels and pennies and ending up with just pennies. I would turn a flip if the Saints "approached" salary cap issues. The Brees deal saved Benny a 1st round QB salary...worked out just fine. No Duece deal, at this point in our struggle, is worth it.

blacksaint · 09-13-2007, 03:06 PM

OK guys, let's sit back and take a very deep breath. Now relax, we're not 0-6 or 0-10, we're 0-1, no one should be having anxiety attacks. When I mentioned Deuce and trade in the same sentence, I didn't mean for you guys to run off with that, I really don't think the Saints will trade the Deuce for the simple reason Bush haven't proved he can be the man yet and until then they feel a lot more comfortable with Deuce in the backfield. Coach has since acknowledge he have to run the Deuce way more than they did against the Colts, and I think the Bucs better button their chin straps up because THE DEUCE IS COMING!

iceshack149 · 09-13-2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar.

I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS.

Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South.

It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded.

Good post. The next Jim Brown/ Barry Sanders/ Robert Smith perhaps? Get out before you become the next Earl Campbell?
This is a subject that will haunt this forum and my mind this year. I love the guy. I'd hate to see him go but would prefer retirement over a trade.

hagan714 · 09-13-2007, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

And what was the KK to Bullocks pick ratio last year? Bullocks sucks. He's almost always out of position and rarely makes any kind of play. Harper and Bellamy is better than Harper and Bullocks. I say put in KK and let Bellamy play the red zone. Bellamy and Simmons in the red zone will produce for sure.

All I am saying is KK may not be the answer you are looking for. He is another signing that did not address a problem as a fix for that position but it did add depth so the bleeding would not be so bad if injury hits again. He is just another temp

hagan714 · 09-13-2007, 04:11 PM

I agree that Duce is smart and I could see him redoing his contract to stay also. Being smart he realizes that Bush has lengthen his football life. If he goes else were he will be the 25 to 30 carries a game back. Can the knee hold up?

WillMacKenzie · 09-13-2007, 04:49 PM

We can all agree that Simoneau has had his chance to shine and started all last year, and is starting this year with the same results.

What isn't taken into account is that neither Simmons, nor Kaesviharn has had an opportunity to even START a game yet this year, much less play an entire game, much less play an entire season. So the argument that they haven't solved any defensive problems isn't completely accurate - they just haven't had an opportunity from ol' pass-happy.

09-13-2007, 04:43 AM	#21
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,633	Re: Message To Coach Payton Originally Posted by hagan714 Duce runs means Bush runs and vice a versa. end of story KK is good at run support but like Bullocks he can be exploited in the passing game. And what was the KK to Bullocks pick ratio last year? Bullocks sucks. He's almost always out of position and rarely makes any kind of play. Harper and Bellamy is better than Harper and Bullocks. I say put in KK and let Bellamy play the red zone. Bellamy and Simmons in the red zone will produce for sure.

09-13-2007, 08:31 AM	#22
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Message To Coach Payton First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar. Originally Posted by LongTimeFan IMO Deuce will be traded next season, it's not something I'm looking forward to be I think he's a player that the Saints need to help win games but I agree, he's not be used enough, I hope to see him get more carries, I don't think Bush is a back that can carry a team alone so if Deuce is traded next year as I think he will the saints will have to get him some help back there.. My two cents worth.. I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS. Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South. It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

09-13-2007, 08:36 AM	#23
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	Re: Message To Coach Payton I wholeheartedly agree with the assesement on Bullocks, he has left more than one cornerback out to dry! As I have said time and time again on this board, we need a new defensive coordinator, plain and simple. This one seems to have as bad of blinders on as did Haslett with Brooks. ( Oh no he didn't just go there! ) We cannot run man on d, we have sucked at it for years now and the d-coordinator just can't seem to let it go. His reasoning has made me question his intentions the whole time. His 'let's bring in zone players to play man coverage' has me baffled on so many levels. And as I have said before, if you continue to get beat down the field, at least start blitzing form every conceivable angle! You're getting beat anyway, why not try to get to the QB before he burns you? But staying with man, and leaving our LB's in a maybe we blitz from a vanilla scheme or maybe we leave them in run d to get the hell pounded out of them, ain't going to cut it any longer. And don't think Peyton didn't know he could burn Jason David anytime he wanted to, now he just showed the rest of the NFL how to do it. We better be making some adjustments on both sides of the ball this week or else that feeling of how Haslett started his descent his second year will creep back into the back of my mind.

09-13-2007, 11:16 AM	#24
Hisaint Rookie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 9	Re: Message To Coach Payton Originally Posted by WhoDat205 First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar. I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS. Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South. It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded. Great points. It's not often you think of a player taking his legacy into consideration, or for that matter anything besides the mighty dollar. But Deuce is no ordinary 'run of the mill' cat.
Hisaint Rookie Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 9

09-13-2007, 02:45 PM	#25
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: Message To Coach Payton Even the thought of a Duece trade starts to fuel that upchuck feeling way down deep somewhere. It would be a big mistake. There is nothing that you could get for Duece that would come close to what he brings to our success week in and week out, on and off of the field. I love Reggie...he's exciting, explosive, intriguing, all of that; but he's not ready to carry our load. I've seen Bush get snatched with one hand while the lineman is fighting off a block with the other hand - not so with Duece. I've seen linebackers find excuses to lay on the ground to keep from having to take yet another pounding from Duece late in the 3rd and into the 4th. A Duece trade sounds like money talking - Benzo counting nickels and pennies and ending up with just pennies. I would turn a flip if the Saints "approached" salary cap issues. The Brees deal saved Benny a 1st round QB salary...worked out just fine. No Duece deal, at this point in our struggle, is worth it.
	SaintSince67

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09-13-2007, 03:06 PM	#26
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Message To Coach Payton OK guys, let's sit back and take a very deep breath. Now relax, we're not 0-6 or 0-10, we're 0-1, no one should be having anxiety attacks. When I mentioned Deuce and trade in the same sentence, I didn't mean for you guys to run off with that, I really don't think the Saints will trade the Deuce for the simple reason Bush haven't proved he can be the man yet and until then they feel a lot more comfortable with Deuce in the backfield. Coach has since acknowledge he have to run the Deuce way more than they did against the Colts, and I think the Bucs better button their chin straps up because THE DEUCE IS COMING!
	saint4life (504)

09-13-2007, 03:07 PM	#27
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,238 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Message To Coach Payton Originally Posted by WhoDat205 First off, Leilung, that's a great avatar. I see where trading Deuce makes sense for the team, he would have a lot of value on the market and you might be able to use him to get a good CB or LB or similar. I just don't think it's that simple. Deuce likes spending time with his family in Lena and he has the car lots in Jackson and several other business ventures going on. There's even rumblings about him running for political office in MS. Deuce is a smart guy. I think he understands that he can extend his career by playing with Reggie and taking fewer snaps than guys like LJ, not to mention there is a chance to do something great with the Saints. I think he also understands that he has a legacy in the Gulf South. It would not surprise me if Deuce elected to retire rather than be traded. Good post. The next Jim Brown/ Barry Sanders/ Robert Smith perhaps? Get out before you become the next Earl Campbell? This is a subject that will haunt this forum and my mind this year. I love the guy. I'd hate to see him go but would prefer retirement over a trade.

09-13-2007, 04:07 PM	#28
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Message To Coach Payton Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo And what was the KK to Bullocks pick ratio last year? Bullocks sucks. He's almost always out of position and rarely makes any kind of play. Harper and Bellamy is better than Harper and Bullocks. I say put in KK and let Bellamy play the red zone. Bellamy and Simmons in the red zone will produce for sure. All I am saying is KK may not be the answer you are looking for. He is another signing that did not address a problem as a fix for that position but it did add depth so the bleeding would not be so bad if injury hits again. He is just another temp

09-13-2007, 04:11 PM	#29
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Message To Coach Payton I agree that Duce is smart and I could see him redoing his contract to stay also. Being smart he realizes that Bush has lengthen his football life. If he goes else were he will be the 25 to 30 carries a game back. Can the knee hold up?

09-13-2007, 04:49 PM	#30
WillMacKenzie 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,627	Re: Message To Coach Payton We can all agree that Simoneau has had his chance to shine and started all last year, and is starting this year with the same results. What isn't taken into account is that neither Simmons, nor Kaesviharn has had an opportunity to even START a game yet this year, much less play an entire game, much less play an entire season. So the argument that they haven't solved any defensive problems isn't completely accurate - they just haven't had an opportunity from ol' pass-happy.